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Post by Aslan Cross on Feb 24, 2005 18:20:57 GMT -5
The problem with having a DC at 5 while having a small dodge pool lies in the fact that we don't know how much smaller a "tanker" class's dodge pool will be compared to a "dodger" class. Even if his dodge pool goes down to half that of a "dodger" class, they're going to be able to dodge a LOT more than they do now.
As per Rooster's comment, I was also wondering about proposing an evasive action like the dodge in SRW (that causes you to sacrifice your attack phase, but halves your opponent's hit rate on you). We can do:
Full Evade Forfeit your attack phase. Your final DC cost (after all bonuses and penalties are applied) is halved for this turn. Your DC may not go lower than your class's minimum DC. (Hence, if your halved current DC goes below your minimum DC, you get the value of your minimum DC instead.)
I was thinking about allowing people to go below the 5-DC minimum when doing this. I don't know if that's a bit too favorable to dodgers, though.
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Post by Rooster on Feb 24, 2005 20:19:45 GMT -5
If it goes below DC 5, I'd think about allowing everyone to go below their normal minimum DC as well... since DC 5 is just the lowest minimum dodge cost at this point.
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Post by Kyoryushin on Feb 24, 2005 20:32:19 GMT -5
Hmm why not have it that when you use Full Evasive, then you can have a DC of 5..but then this would only be good on the tankers....but its a thought
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Post by Yanbetari on Feb 24, 2005 23:09:50 GMT -5
Full Evasive should break the 5 DC minimum, because if classes like Sei Senshi and Valk Pilot, our super dodgers, can't make use of it, it shouldn't be usuable by our dodge-like-colonies Dynamics. The point of this proposal was to make dodging classes better, not make tanking classes dodgy.
Of course, you should make it so a person can't both Block and Full Evade in the same turn.
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Post by Tavish on Feb 24, 2005 23:16:12 GMT -5
The problem with having a DC at 5 while having a small dodge pool lies in the fact that we don't know how much smaller a "tanker" class's dodge pool will be compared to a "dodger" class. Even if his dodge pool goes down to half that of a "dodger" class, they're going to be able to dodge a LOT more than they do now. For a Dynamic, 15-ish DC allows for 9-10 dodges in a 150 PC match. If they get min DC 5 and 50 pool, it remains mostly the same. Keep in mind, it's not the best idea to go with a dodging plan when you need to equip multiple items to not be blown away by anyone who comes with +TDC modifiers. Blah, addendum. It's not like I'm dead-set to have minimum DCs removed, but if we do go with this, dropping the minimum DC might be considered still. Or at least lowering it, to say 10. With the above example, they'll get even less (5 dodges!). While tanking is excellent, those dodges can still be awfully handy... I know I've used them before. Shamelessly!
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Post by Aslan Cross on Feb 24, 2005 23:16:33 GMT -5
Yan> Yeah, I agree it should only be either blocking or evading. No sense doing both. Besides, you can't do that in SRW either.
Tavish> For a Dynamic to get his DC down to 15, he needs to have a dodging setup, though. But SRs can usually tank without needing to bring extra damage-reducing items, and if they bring something like a Green Haro (which is not Hi-Tier), there goes your problem.
Also, logically---no matter how many items you put on SRs, they still shouldn't be able to dodge as well as RRs do, not because of the mech but because of the pilot. (Generally---I'm aware there are exceptions)
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Post by Umbaglo on Feb 24, 2005 23:25:15 GMT -5
Which is a funny statement, because in the shows, the pilots are usually incredibly agile.
Also, a lot of SRs are incredibly dodgy in the games.
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Post by Aslan Cross on Feb 25, 2005 3:31:32 GMT -5
It's kinda unfair to say that they're incredibly agile in the shows when they're not put alongside RRs, though. But anyway, it's more a question of how the classes are supposed to behave in the SC than how they were in the shows.
Also, in some games, SRs were terrible tankers and took damage like beercans.
Anyway, is the full evasive concept more or less okay?
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Post by RurouninMao on Feb 25, 2005 7:35:59 GMT -5
Hmm how about this idea....
Now this idea is more in gear with Spam attacks than anything else, but here is what its about. During your defense phase you either choose to A. Evade B. Block C. Counterattack
IF A is chosen: you take the total PC you should have used to dodge and divide it by 2. You loose the attack phase for that turn. Example: I spam a PT with a +5 to DC 50 x 10. Now in this sense he should be like dodging for 200 without help from seishin and other DC modifiers. If he choose the Evade option, instead of Doding for 200 PC, he will just have to spend for 100.
IF B is chosen: If you choose this you automatically block all incoming attacks, now this would not make really much difference, but what if lets say increase the Reduction for this option..lets say -75% for blocking attack? You also will loose the attack phase for that turn
IF C is chosen: It be what we have now, but blocking the attack is no option since if you block you automaticaly go to B.
THis would make it look more SRWish. Your thoughts?
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Post by Umbaglo on Feb 25, 2005 10:33:01 GMT -5
Why should Block be any more then it is already? Becides, it's -50% in SRW, as well.
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Post by Yanbetari on Feb 25, 2005 11:12:51 GMT -5
Yeah. Block should just stay at 50%. It's hard enough cracking some tanks without cutting the damage in half again.
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Post by Aslan Cross on Feb 25, 2005 23:34:26 GMT -5
I agree, block doesn't need to be modified, let alone strengthened.
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Post by Umbaglo on Feb 25, 2005 23:57:11 GMT -5
Ok, so, I'm going to assume that the concensus is pilot-based pools, which can be modified by unit or items. The proposal of Dodge is a good one, but is aside of this subject. Not that it sounds like I'm pushing it away, I just want this one focused on.
The next step is basically to figure out the range of values. My own tests were 50 to 150 ranges, but if we're going to have lots of possible modifiers, 50 to 100 is probably better. I'm looking at about the following base values, then:
Dynamics: 50~60 Yuusha/Child of Eva/Classless: 60~70 Personal Trooper/Masoukishin Herald/Heavy Metal/Psychodriver/Tensai: 65~75 Enhanced Human/Newtype/Gundam Fighter/Martian Successor/Ninja Senshi/Coordinator: 70~80 Sei Senshi/Valkyrie Pilot: 80+
Keep in mind these are just off the top of my head stuff.
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Post by Aslan Cross on Feb 26, 2005 0:07:19 GMT -5
Dynamics probably shouldn't even hit 60, IMO. The other values look good, however.
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Post by Umbaglo on Feb 26, 2005 0:13:24 GMT -5
I'd like to point out that some Dynamics (Hayato, I'm looking at you), are REALLY good dodgers, even becides the 75% automatic dodge that -2 gives.
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