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Post by Umbaglo on Feb 4, 2005 7:06:10 GMT -5
So, what? Would you want Ki-Ai to be off dodging? I don't think that's any better.
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Post by Rooster on Feb 4, 2005 9:20:42 GMT -5
What if Ki-Ai doesn't cost dodge points, but reduces your dodge pool MAXIMUM for the rest of the fight? You're refocusing yourself to stand there and bull through the damage instead of dance out of the way.
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Post by Tavish on Feb 4, 2005 12:12:11 GMT -5
What if you don't buy Kiai counters at all?
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Post by Trigger on Feb 6, 2005 1:47:44 GMT -5
This maybe Looking a little too ahead but, If this new dodging system was to be adopted, would there be any pilot skills that would increase the size of the Doding PC Pool?
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Post by Umbaglo on Feb 6, 2005 9:06:55 GMT -5
Doubtful. Where's the pilot skill that increases HP? Like I've been saying in the past few pages, it should be item-based increases, to match it with HP.
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Post by Tavish on Feb 6, 2005 9:24:01 GMT -5
HP isn't pilot-based, though, with the singular exception of Sei Senshi's Hyperize, it's mecha-based. This would decide dodge pools based on pilot class. The analogy kind of runs out at that point. That's not a good support for it being the exact same. You can arrive at the same conclusion as you have, but you have to rationalize it based on other reasons.
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Post by Tavish on Feb 6, 2005 9:29:31 GMT -5
No, that's not the point. I'm talking about in any fight, not just these tests. I can easily see myself doing exactly what I am now. If I'm pumping out gonzo damage and not taking much, why do I care about CC-ing? Unless the enemy has an (M) or (P) PARALYZE, that is. Hmmm... I thought about this a little more, and it occured to me... What if "Weapon" PCs could also be used for dodging, the same as they are now, but unreplenishable? Perhaps it might even be a little meaner towards them, too (such as having a higher-than-5, but still standard, min DC)... although I realize it doesn't solve the issue, it could be the necessary compromise. Of course, it might also be the dreadfully wrong compromise. One route requires more changes than the other, but the other route may acquire more problems (like we have now). Depending on how each is handled. Opinions?
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Post by Arad Baranga on Feb 12, 2005 1:20:08 GMT -5
Another crap hole... This makes Countercut a heck of a lot better than it is now because the option isn't between Countercut and Dodging. Imagine how much hell you'll have dealing with a Coordinator. So I was thinking...
Perhaps we should change the "Dodge Pool" to something called "Action Points." These are used for Dodging, Ki-Ai, Countercut and any other PC-based pilot abilities. PCs are only used for mecha/item stuff.
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Post by Umbaglo on Feb 12, 2005 1:23:10 GMT -5
Hm, after thinking about it a while, putting things like Ki-Ai in with dodging wouldn't really be all that bad, since it would take an IS or a signifigant chunk of SP to get those PCs back.
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Post by Umbaglo on Feb 12, 2005 23:49:03 GMT -5
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Post by RurouninMao on Feb 12, 2005 23:53:47 GMT -5
My opinion
The system is good, dodger will really really realy benefit from this, even in extreme spam (like in my case) but then it will ultimately depends on the mech, pilot class and seishin: In the fight with trigger i felt that if he only took Great Stamina and packed the Dodge replenishing Perishable, he could have win since his class can tank AND dodge better than my class which is more offensive oriented.
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Post by Mechalomaniac on Feb 13, 2005 0:09:34 GMT -5
Tilus brought this up in IRC, and I agree. Single hits will be quite a bit less useful than they already are. It's a good system overall, but these are issues that should be looked at. Also I fear it might make the extreme dodging classes a bit too powerful.
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Post by Umbaglo on Feb 15, 2005 10:11:13 GMT -5
Well, it seems that the basis itself is good to go, so that leaves the matter of implementations left. There's a few ways that this could be handled, including: [/li][li]Fixed size based on PC stips [/li][li]Mech-determined [/li][li]Class-determined
Personally, I don't think #1 would work well enough, and #2 is a lot of work. So if we go #3, then it's a matter of deciding the class values.
As for the extreme cases, Mecha, that would be, well, VP and SS. I wouldn't say that they're offensive powerhouses, but I do agree that they would prove to be incredibly hard to hit.
And just on a side note, I think people overexaggurate the single-hits thing. I've been noticing in a lot of fights the use of many high-power or high-DC single hits to good effect. And really, when going up against something that doesn't dodge well, one massive attack is better then a lot of little ones.
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Post by Mechalomaniac on Feb 15, 2005 16:45:19 GMT -5
Particularly considering just about every Aura Battler has 3/5 Bunshin and they have their barrier.
Anyway I'm for fight based Dodge Pools. We already have (more or less) balanced Dodge Costs and minimum dodge costs for the different classes. I don't see the need to give them seperate dodging pools as well.
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Post by Arad Baranga on Feb 15, 2005 16:53:22 GMT -5
I don't like the Dodge Pool being part of the fight stips at all. Should HP be part of the fight stips? Personally, I'd like to have it be based on your unit. That way, we could hammer down even more that Super Robots are not for dodging guys, and could make Mothership Class not silly. Something like Mazinger Z or a battleship would have a crappy Dodge Pool, while a Valkyrie would have a bitchin' Dodge Pool. But this WOULD be a LOT of work, and wouldn't really solve much more than class-based. It'd just be cooler.
So I'm for making it class-based. Then there might be items or unit inherents that boost it.
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