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Post by Mafty Navue Erin on Apr 29, 2004 3:59:40 GMT -5
My idea is that certain classes that start off with more SP have a significant SP increase percentage than those of classes that start with less SP(such as RR pilots) What you're proposing will hurt the current relationship between SR and RR classes. In our present stage, SR classes already have a significantly larger SP Pool compared towards RR classes. To increase that SP Pool means to screw up the levels established between classes.
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Post by Lyonesse on Apr 29, 2004 12:54:37 GMT -5
No you don't get the point. I'd present it graphically, but I'd state it in words first. The larger % increase of certain classes means that they can get somewhere at par with the SP amounts of other classes. If a class starts off with lower SP, it's only fitting that its increase % margin be higher than those that start off with more SP. This first graph is my proposal in graphical form. Blue represents the base SP. Red indicates the SP % increase. This next one is the graphical representation of the current SP pools and their limits. EDIT: Withdrew previous statement.
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Post by Mafty Navue Erin on Apr 29, 2004 23:05:07 GMT -5
...
You know, what you said in both of your previous posts are complete opposites of each other.
In that post, you're claiming (or at best, implying) your idea denotes that those that start off with more SP get a bigger increase than those who don't.
Now, you're saying that it's the other way around.
Please get your facts straight. Or at least, please explain it in a non-ambiguous way next time.
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Post by Daki on May 16, 2004 1:19:07 GMT -5
I know its not an unpopular pilot class, but I have a suggestion for the PT class. Seeing as we all are in great fear of an 11 shots of destroy while using an sr class =P I recomend this system, as well as limiting the PX system to two or three attack limit.
- Overload: Gain additional Attack Phases during your turn for 10 PP. Allowed ability usage depends on rank and PP. 5 PP gained each turn after the first, 10 PP earned per kill, and 2 PP earned per hit. Private: 20 PP, 30 Max. Corporal: 25 PP, 40 Max. Sergeant: 30 PP, 60 Max. Ensign: 35 PP, 70 Max. Lieutenant: 40 PP, 90 Max.
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Post by RurouninMao on May 16, 2004 6:23:05 GMT -5
What does PP stands for?
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Post by Lyonesse on May 16, 2004 9:40:35 GMT -5
PP stands for pilot points.
I tried a system similiar like this to propose to Aslan and co., but they found it a problem unlike the EH's tension guage. Both proposals (Daki and I) are modelled off the tension guage.
So I'd think that the PP/overloads thing can't push through.
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Post by Daki on May 16, 2004 11:11:25 GMT -5
Nerfs t'that. The tension gauge is somthing thats gained through action, I figure since this is a charge based system it'll be a little more popular... hopefully. It gives PT's long lasting flavor even after they expend their original points, but keeps them from being overly evil in the first 3 turns.
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Post by Eis Attacker! Ver.W on May 16, 2004 17:09:27 GMT -5
Modded thread title since it'll better reflect what this thread is for.
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Post by Tristan on May 16, 2004 21:20:48 GMT -5
Time for a little rant from a Tensai, not about his class, though it incluedes it.. but from a view of someone who's been in the SC for a decent ammount of time. This has a little more to do with SAMW, some new classes and the mods that several have gotten in the recent past and possible future then any one class.
Yuusha is the first example of something that annoys me very much, though I understand that people have been looking forward to the class and it's not directly it's fault; my main beef is that quite simply, it's outdoing many of the classes out there. Only one of it's abilities, often considered the most useless, is useable only in Yuusha. Otherwise, it's like a mini-SR in a can with a dodge cost better then Tensai and some people want to see it even better. Which leads to the current problem.. some classes get modded every other month, because they have heavy pushers, and some get nothing because they don't, or the person spouting has a bad reputation. Look at the classes in the SC right now, we have ~15-16 total or so, but you'll be rue to find people who arn't taking 1 of the 5 majors in all their slots. Another factor is that bluntly, alot of classes have gotten big mods recently, such as countershoot or retooled abilities/DC, while alot of the older and more established classes are being left in the dust. There are -alot- of classes that are both unused because they're limited, or because they've become obsolete compared to the newer classes. Why take X class, when Y can do it just as well, and so on? This was only aggravated by SAMW which has caused..
My last problem, alot of classes are completely useless these days, because most classes were never meant for SAMW. They were meant for everyone to have one class, and you knew exactely what you were up again; now a days, alot of classes are openly admitted as being so awful for normal use and new people, that people arn't even sure they want to SAMW them. Why? Because you can buy a SR, a RR, a middle and you'll never need to touch those classes that are somewhere inbetween.
I'm not going to point fingers, I'm not going to claim a solution.. I'm not even going to claim something is really wrong, but I think these are points that need to be considered. All classes were created "Equal" at some point, but the scale is tilting, and because we can now pick and choose, alot of classes that were meant to cover two areas because you could only have one at the time.. are becoming obsolete because now you can.
Just my two cents on things on things.
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Post by Rekan Yuusha on May 16, 2004 22:00:10 GMT -5
In a word, Tristan, and do pardon my French, "Bullshit". Classes are proving worthless because of SAMW and people owning multiple ones? Fine, then why not improve those classes rather than blame SAMW-style? SAMW is a darn good thing, and I refuse to stand idlely by and let it be insulted as such. I'm all for improving classes, however.
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Post by Tristan on May 16, 2004 22:49:20 GMT -5
I think you missed the point, Ebby. I was saying that classes need to be rebalanced, not that SAMW needs to be taken out :X
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Post by Rekan Yuusha on May 17, 2004 4:48:13 GMT -5
Don't you give me that! I came in here for an argument!
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Post by Blaine Kodos on May 17, 2004 5:28:30 GMT -5
"Oh, oh I'm sorry.. this is Abuse!"
*ahem*
Anyway, I don't really have an answer or a suggestion or even an intelligent idea. I just know a good Monty Python bit when I see one. Sorry.
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Post by Aslan Cross on May 17, 2004 8:35:20 GMT -5
I don't mean to sound discriminatory to the people who don't like the SAMW idea very much or simply don't have the resources to invest in it, but I think a lot of the weaknesses of the classes can be nixed by fighting in SAMWs. I tend to think that SAMW is more of an equalizer than a de-balancer.
That said, how many people invest in SAMW anyway? I haven't seen that many.
Also, I know people don't want to listen to my arguments for keeping PT as it is because I AM a PT, but from one and a half years of experience, overloading everything in the first turn VERY RARELY wins a battle. In fact, overloading more than twice in a turn at the wrong time usually ends up with me losing. Quite honestly, nerfing the PT Overload is like removing an SR pilot's Dairyoku. If no one wants to listen to my opinion because I'm a PT, I'd gladly change my class.
Personally, I'd rather come up with creative solutions using items, pilot class and mech combinations rather than keep complaining about changing the system again and again and again. Don't get me wrong---change is good, but not everything has to be changed. There are problems, but not all of them are glaring examples of inequality. No system is perfect, and please don't hope that the system ever will be. I don't mean to say don't complain---just don't complain about every single loss that you suffer. By all means, complain about loopholes that are exploited and abused, and we'll do something about it. But don't complain just because you lost to this guy because he did this. See the mistakes you made, take time to analyze why you lost, and make sure you don't do it again. Granted, it takes a lot of time. But most of us are here the whole day anyway, aren't we?
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Post by RurouninMao on May 17, 2004 8:42:13 GMT -5
Well lets see....
Note that we are at this point is trying to balance the classes, the reason why you see us favoring certain class is cause, from my point of view, they are the easiest to fix or have some idea floating around about them that really needs attention(EX, Mazin, Gren and Getter and also the moded HM). As for Yuusha, i dont see what it has that is better than the rest Tristan, dodge wise, lotsa class outshines Yuusha, Damage wise also, although its main advantage that yuusha damage modifiers are passive, but for its standard amount it not really that fight changing really. As for Iryoku and Chikara, the Iryoku was intended that way since i believe having a yuusha given access to all combo attack aint a good idea IMHO, And Chikara is easy to circumvent and cant be really used in small units. So at the moment i dont really see how can it outshine any of the other classes
As for SAMW, i never tried it yet so i cant say the pro's and con's of it. But the issue about abilities not built for SAMW si rather strange, from what i see, any of em can be used in SAMW, its just how you can use it to your advantage thats all.
Anyway since at the moment the SR class has been retooled, which RR class do you think need fixin?
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