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Post by Regris Kallen on Oct 11, 2004 20:28:26 GMT -5
A bonus for all of two attacks.
Point is, HM is a pretty decent all around class, it's just a tad on the defensive side.
SS, on the other hand, have a horrible tendancy to die when not in a AB.
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Post by Regris Kallen on Oct 17, 2004 4:02:30 GMT -5
And the thread gets ignored. Great.
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Post by Umbaglo on Oct 17, 2004 10:58:43 GMT -5
You have no idea how much this angers me. These are really important matters, and if they're resolved then they should be implimented now. If they're not resolved, then they SHOULD be. Why does everyone keep doing this? Do you not understand the importance, here?
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Post by Rekan Yuusha on Oct 17, 2004 11:42:37 GMT -5
Might be the fact that only Regris, Jaiku, and I actually have Sei Senshis. XD Maybe something like: "Aura no Chikara- If Target has a barrier, that barrier negates 10 less damage from -type weapons." And, if anything, we could add something like: "Every turn Aura no Chikara is used, increase Shin Aura no Chikara's level by 1. Level caps at 5." "Shin Aura no Chikara: Completely negates barrier in target for one turn. Cost depends on level: Level 1: 20 SP Level 2: 15 SP Level 3: 10 SP Level 4: 5 SP Level 5: Free " Or something.
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Post by Berrik on Oct 17, 2004 13:36:26 GMT -5
You have no idea how much this angers me. These are really important matters, and if they're resolved then they should be implimented now. If they're not resolved, then they SHOULD be. Why does everyone keep doing this? Do you not understand the importance, here? The problem here is the same as the problem with the rules board-- we need a mod on it who is proactive.
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Post by Regris Kallen on Oct 17, 2004 13:50:58 GMT -5
Mmm, I dunno Ebby, I think it might just be a tad more simple to put in "All attacks, (or (M) attacks) negate barriers on enemy units." Of course, that might be a bit too powerful, but... I don't think it's that bad.
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Post by Rekan Yuusha on Oct 17, 2004 13:56:32 GMT -5
The only problem I have with that is that some huge barriers, like, say, AT Fields, probably shouldn't be instantly negated by, like, an SS'd Beam Saber every single time. Even the Yuusha barrier negation ability has some sort of drawback, after all. XD
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Oct 17, 2004 14:40:45 GMT -5
But the way I read your thing, Ebanis, you wouldn't just have SS Beam Sabers penetrating - after the fifth turn you hit a barrier with a [Fist] attack no one you attacked on the other team would have a working barrier at all against anyone. I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that, though.
Maybe something like the reduction you put in (Barriers reduce 10 damage less from [Fist] attacks you make) plus a turn-based charge for complete negation? That'd still be quite nasty with (MX), maybe a stronger ability with a restriction against (X) would be suitable? I don't really know the class.
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Post by Umbaglo on Oct 17, 2004 14:43:59 GMT -5
This is one of the reasons it's hard to modify SS. No one really knows much about the class.
Maybe we can have some sort of bonuses if they're piloting S or SS units? Natural Stealth, or damage mods, or the like.
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Oct 17, 2004 15:17:34 GMT -5
Trying to push discussion on X~Y DC, here's a possible baseline for costs. Some classes have been left out; I'm just trying to establish reasonable starting levels.
~1/3 dodge for additional hits: VP, NT, CO (SEED)
~1/2 dodge for additional hits: PD, PT, Tensai, CO (non-SEED)
~1 dodge (no bonus) for additional hits: Yuusha and Dynamics
For reference, this would give minimum levels of: 5~2 for ~1/3 5~3 for ~1/2 and assuming minimum DCs given by Yan: 10~10 for Yuusha 15~15 for Getter (assuming DC swap, I guess) 16~16 for Grendizer 17~17 for Mazinger
Starting costs would be: 5~2 for VP and CO (SEED) 7~2 for NT 12~6 for PD 14~7 for CO (non-SEED) 15~8 for PT and Tensai 20~20 for Yuusha 25~25 for Getter 26~26 for Gren 27~27 for Mazin
I'd expect some of the emulator-using classes - Antibodies, maybe GFs in Super or Hyper, maybe MSes depending on how they turn out after reworking - to get ~1/2 with no emulator and ~1/3 with an emulator or in class units.
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Post by MaullarMaullar on Oct 17, 2004 15:21:00 GMT -5
Hey, hey, what about SS? O:
Personally, I think VP and SS should be above NT and SEED'd CO in terms of dodging. They have very few (useful) abilities besides 5 DC, and they're the absolute best dodgers in the games.
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Post by Regris Kallen on Oct 17, 2004 15:23:10 GMT -5
And SS goes by ignored, again. Seriously though, the bonus to being in S and SS units... kinda makes sense. The (M) or being a barrier pierce also makes... some sense. Perhaps we should make a new thread to brainstorm new ideas?
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Post by WesleyGibson on Oct 17, 2004 15:33:15 GMT -5
Until dairyoku is sufficiently rebalanced I personally think any move to institute minimum dodge costs is a little premature. The main issue here isn't that I can sacrifice an IS and half my damage to lock my gren's DC at 5. That's certainly unkind, especially for a non-HT item and yellow haro SHOULD go back to HT, as should green probably, but I don't think it's the root of the problem.
The main issue is that I can do that for your really powerful, really draining weapons, the stuff I can't survive, and just defend all your other weapons down to worthlessness through the might of dairyoku. A lot of people whine about super robots who dodge really well being unfair. Go look at as many examples as you can find of someone getting slaughtered by an SR class and see how many of those had ANYTHING to do with the ability to get those dodge mods. Nine times out of ten you aren't going to see them dodge at all.
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Oct 17, 2004 15:42:48 GMT -5
The purpose was not to provide a comprehensive list; I must've left a third of the classes off, so don't get worked up about SS not being there.
Anyway, this possibility is a fairly simple breakdown. ~1/3 is great RR (and where I'd put SS). ~1/2 is RR. ~1 is SR. CoEs might be ~2/3 but I think the first three categories work for most stuff. And this is being put up to promote discussion about whether that's an appropriate division.
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Post by Kyoryushin on Oct 17, 2004 23:41:56 GMT -5
HMM let me get this
if im a Tensai dodging an X tha would mean i dodge 15 on the 1st then 8 on the succeding ones am right? As for SS, they look fine, i mean thye got low enough DC and once in a AB coudl realy a pest to deal with unless your opponent is packing an X or cheap multi hit weapon
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