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Post by Tavish on Feb 19, 2005 9:33:25 GMT -5
And another problem with that is it varies from pilot to pilot. Relying on some of the more, how to say, traditional abilities is the way to go.
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Feb 19, 2005 15:47:53 GMT -5
I was thinking that instead of using Guts level to determind some bonuses and Guts spending to do some others, we could try using Guts spending for everything. Something like:
- Yuusha no Tamashii: Increase Pilot's general stats depending on rank: Private: Dodge Cost is 24; Weapon Damage +10%.[/i] Corporal: Dodge Cost is 23; Weapon Damage +20%.[/i] Sergeant: Dodge Cost is 22; Weapon Damage +30%.[/i] Ensign: Dodge Cost is 21; Weapon Damage +40%.[/i] Lieutenant: Dodge Cost is 20; Weapon Damage +50%.[/i]
- Guts Gauge: Ranges between 0 and 10. Gain 1 Guts counter for every attack phase that hits the Yuusha and is not dodged or otherwise evaded. (Incidentally, there's a question here - can you dodge some attacks in the phase but not others?) Gain 1 Guts counter if an attack you made in the previous turn hit and dealt damage. (Not one per attack, just one if any attack did.)
Finally, you may choose to gain one Guts counter at the beginning of a turn by forfeiting your Attack and Transform phases. (I was thinking about maybe allowing a PC buy, too...) You may not block, use Repair or use Resupply (the action, not the seishin) that turn.
Guts counters can be expended to give different effects. All listed bonuses stack multiplicatively with other pilot abilities.
[/li][li]Barrier Pierce: Cost 2 Guts. The last hit of your next attack phase ignores barrier effects. [/li][li]Armor Pierce: Cost 2 Guts. The last hit of your next attack phase ignores armor effects. [/li][li]Target Lock: Cost 2 Guts. Your next attack may not be support defended. [/li][li]Hissatsu: Cost 5 Guts. The last hit of your next attack phase gains Damage +150%. The last attack of your next attack phase gains Target's Dodge Cost +5. [/li][li]Miracle Hissatsu: Cost 10 Guts. If your next attack phase is non-(X) and non-(R), its last hit gains Damage +300%, and its other hits gain Damage +150%. If your next attack phase is non-(X), its last hit gains Target's Dodge Cost +10, and its other hits gain Target's Dodge Cost +5. Your next attack phase is treated as if Direct Attack were cast on it. [/li][li]Gattai: Cost 5 Guts. Gattai to the next level of a Yuusha. (Supersedes current gattai, I suppose.) [/li][li]Iryoku: Cost 1 Guts. Pay 1.5 * resource cost to activate a two-unit combo attack with an EN or PC cost without the partner unit present. [/li][li] Fortify: Cost 10 Guts. Gain Damage Received -30%. [/li][li] Resolve: Cost 10 Guts. Gain Damage +50%. [/li][li] Rush: Cost 10 Guts. Gain Dodge Cost -5. [/li][li] Quick Fortify: Cost 5 Guts. Gain Damage Received -30% this turn. [/li][li] Quick Rush: Cost 5 Guts. Gain Dodge Cost -5 this turn.
The tendency of the stuff I did would probably tilt Yuusha more towards being an offensive class. But anyway, I'm sure the details on this would need work; I just thought I might mention the idea.
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Post by Mechalomaniac on Feb 19, 2005 17:17:54 GMT -5
Humm....I like the idea of Fortify, Resolve, and Rush. It makes them sort of like Masoukishin Heralds, though with a wider variety of abilities and more wait time. However without any constant inheret DR, and poor dodging ability, I fear they'll be easy to kill rather quickly, particularly considering you need to survive at least 5 turns of constantly taking hits for activate Fortify (and half that to activate the quick version).
Maybe lower the Yuusha no Tamashii Damage sleightly, give back the DR at 25% or so and lower the bonus given by fortify to make it a total of 50% Also add in something about it not being stackable (unless this was the intention, which could be a bit scary)
Also maybe add in something about using up more Guts to add more unit limits to the combos (something like 2 bars for a three unit attack and so on).
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Post by WesleyGibson on Feb 19, 2005 18:42:29 GMT -5
I have to agree, this is an interesting set of possibilities but it looks like it would create a really really weak class. If it has a decent min dodge cost it might play alright, but if not, it's just going to get crushed. No tanking power + "You have to tank" gauge = pain.
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Post by Mechalomaniac on Feb 19, 2005 19:13:48 GMT -5
Yuusha Pilot
Starting Max SP: 95
Maximum SP Cap: 190
Skills & Abilities:
- Minimum Dodge Cost is 10 - Countercut: 2 EN or 5 PCs
- Yuusha no Tamashii: Increase Pilot's general stats depending on rank: Private: Dodge Cost is 24; Damage Recieved - 5%, Weapon Damage +5%.[/i] Corporal: Dodge Cost is 23; Damage Recieved - 10%, Weapon Damage +10%.[/i] Sergeant: Dodge Cost is 22; Damage Recieved - 15%, Weapon Damage +15%.[/i] Ensign: Dodge Cost is 21; Damage Recieved - 20%, Weapon Damage +20%.[/i] Lieutenant: Dodge Cost is 20; Damage Recieved - 25%, Weapon Damage +25%.[/i]
- Guts Gauge: Ranges between 0 and 10. Gain 1 Guts counter for every attack phase that targets the Yuusha and is not dodged in any way or support defended. Gain 1 Guts counter if any attack you made in the previous turn hit and dealt damage.
Finally, you may choose to gain one Guts counter at the beginning of a turn by forfeiting your Attack, Transform, and Maintainence phases.
Guts counters can be expended to give different effects.
[/li][li]Barrier Pierce: Cost 2 Guts. The last hit of your next attack phase ignores barrier effects. [/li][li]Armor Pierce: Cost 2 Guts. The last hit of your next attack phase ignores armor effects. [/li][li]Target Lock: Cost 2 Guts. Your next attack may not be support defended. [/li][li]Hissatsu: Cost 5 Guts. The last hit of your next attack phase gains Damage +150%. The last attack of your next attack phase gains Target's Dodge Cost +5. [/li][li]Miracle Hissatsu: Cost 10 Guts. If your next attack phase includes a non-(X) and non-(R) attack, its last hit gains Damage +300% and Target's Dodge Cost +10, and any other hits gain Damage +150% and Target's Dodge Cost +5. If your next attack phase includes an (R), it gains Damage +100% and Target's Dodge Cost +10. If your attack phase includes an (X) attack it's gains Damage +50% and Target's Dodge Cost +3. Your next attack phase is treated as if Direct Attack were cast on it. [/li][li]Gattai: Cost 5 Guts. Automatically activate a Gattai ability. Only useable in Yuusha units. [/li][li]Iryoku: Cost 1 Guts. Pay 1.5 * resource cost to activate a two-unit combo attack with an EN or PC cost without the partner unit present. You may pay one additional Guts for every additional unit required for a combo attack. (Only useable in Yuusha units?) [/li][li]Fortify: Cost 10 Guts. Gain Damage Received -50%. This overwrites the damage recieved modifier from Yuusha no Tamashii and can only be activated once. [/li][li]Resolve: Cost 10 Guts. Gain Damage +75%. This overwrites the damage modifier from Yuusha no Tamashii and can only be activated once. [/li][li]Rush: Cost 10 Guts. Gain Dodge Cost -5. This can only be activated once. [/li][li]Quick Fortify: Cost 5 Guts. Gain Damage Received -25% this turn. (Should this be allowed to be stacked with Fortify or not?) [/li][li]Quick Rush: Cost 5 Guts. Gain Dodge Cost -5 this turn. (Should this be allowed to be stacked with Rush or not?)
I modified it. I gave back the DR from Yuusha no Tamashii and lowered the damage dealt to 25%. I also cleaned up the wording of some things and added an effect for Miracle Hissatsu on (X) and (R), though weaker than the full effects. Any thoughts?
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Post by WesleyGibson on Feb 19, 2005 21:35:04 GMT -5
mmmm might eclipse gundam fighter in this configuration
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Post by RurouninMao on Feb 20, 2005 8:39:48 GMT -5
Yuusha Pilot
Starting Max SP: 95
Maximum SP Cap: 190
Skills & Abilities:
- Minimum Dodge Cost is 10 - Countercut: 2 EN or 5 PCs
- Yuusha no Tamashii: Increase Pilot's general stats depending on rank: Private: Dodge Cost is 24; Damage Recieved - 10%, Weapon Damage +10%.[/i] Corporal: Dodge Cost is 23; Damage Recieved - 15%, Weapon Damage +15%.[/i] Sergeant: Dodge Cost is 22; Damage Recieved - 20%, Weapon Damage +20%.[/i] Ensign: Dodge Cost is 21; Damage Recieved - 25%, Weapon Damage +25%.[/i] Lieutenant: Dodge Cost is 20; Damage Recieved - 30%, Weapon Damage +30%.[/i]
- Guts Gauge: Ranges between 0 and 10. Gain 1 Guts counter for every attack phase that targets the Yuusha and is not dodged in any way or support defended. Gain 1 Guts counter if any attack you made in the previous turn hit and dealt damage.
Finally, you may choose to gain one Guts counter at the beginning of a turn by forfeiting your Attack, Transform, and Maintainence phases.
Guts counters can be expended to give different effects. These abilities can be used during the Seishin Phase or Transformation Phase.
[/li][li]Barrier Pierce: Cost 2 Guts. The last hit of your next attack phase ignores barrier effects. [/li][li]Armor Pierce: Cost 2 Guts. The last hit of your next attack phase ignores armor effects. [/li][li]Target Lock: Cost 2 Guts. Your next attack may not be support defended. [/li][li]Hissatsu: Cost 5 Guts. The last hit of your present attack phase gains Damage +150%. The last attack of your next attack phase gains Target's Dodge Cost +5. [/li][li]Miracle Hissatsu: Cost 10 Guts. If your present attack phase includes a non-(X) and non-(R) attack, its last hit gains Damage +300% and Target's Dodge Cost +10, and any other hits gain Damage +150% and Target's Dodge Cost +5. If your next attack phase includes an (R), it gains Damage +100% and Target's Dodge Cost +10. If your attack phase includes an (X) attack it's gains Damage +50% and Target's Dodge Cost +3. Your next attack phase is treated as if Direct Attack were cast on it. [/li][li]Gattai: Cost 5 Guts. Automatically activate a Gattai ability. Only useable in Yuusha units. [/li][li]Iryoku: Cost 1 Guts. Pay 1.5 * resource cost to activate a two-unit combo attack with an EN or PC cost without the partner unit present. You may pay one additional Guts for every additional unit required for a combo attack. (Only useable in Yuusha units?) [/li][li]Fortify: Cost 10 Guts. Can block and attack in the same round. All Status Attacks are ignored. You must take all the attack and cannot use any Dodging ability during the Defense Phase of the turn you activated this abiity [/li][li]Rush: Cost 10 Guts. Gain Dodge Cost -10.
-Why does thi affect the last attack? -i change fortify to reflect the tendencies for yuushas to just go "Do or Die mode" rushing the enemy and hoping (and usually succeding) in going through there attacks and nailing them at the end. THis can be changed or reworded in any way you think is possible Also since we might be doing away with Minimum DC, Dodging wont be much of a problem Also what happened to the ressurect ability?
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Feb 20, 2005 11:31:53 GMT -5
I agree on Wesley's comment with "need-to-tank gauge + no ability to tank". Even on Mecha's I wouldn't be too surprised if that became a problem.
Mecha: If the Quick versions don't stack with their permanent effects, they should be a lot cheaper, I think. Fortify/Resolve/Rush actually might stand to be cheaper in general... I don't really know how it'll work out. Also, I forgot to specify "enemy" for the stuff in the Guts gain conditions. Countercutting 4 attacks from your summons for 4 Guts would be bad, for example.
Mao: I don't think you're going to get "ignore all status effects." Maybe a one-turn effect where you ignore PARA and take damage from D:L1, or something like that, you could consider adding.
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Post by Tavish on Feb 20, 2005 13:15:25 GMT -5
"Cost 10 Guts. Can block and attack in the same round. All Status Attacks are ignored. You must take all the attack and cannot use any Dodging ability during the Defense Phase of the turn you activated this abiity "
Blargh. I just don't like it.
On the subject of the Fortify/Rush stuff, I think Quick Fortify should stack with it. But using Quick Fortify when you haven't used Fortify, at least, should be cheaper, if not an all-around reduction for the Quicks. Because then you're sacrificing your ability to get Fortify faster. Stronger might also work. *ruminates*
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Post by RurouninMao on Feb 21, 2005 7:31:52 GMT -5
The effect only lats on that turn and not the whole match, but yeah having Destroy do damage instead would work better? Lets say D:L1 = 50% HP and D:L2 = 75% HP...
Wait wait....do you mean these ability your suggesting are permanent effects?
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Post by Tavish on Feb 21, 2005 8:46:59 GMT -5
Fortify, Rush, and Resolve are indeed intended to be permanent effects, lasting for the remainder of the battle.
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Post by RurouninMao on Feb 22, 2005 7:59:02 GMT -5
OH if thats the case then yeah these stats are good, but i still wish the resurecting ability is retained but oh well..
SO Iryoku will be relegated to guts....hmmm dont think you people would consider having Yuusha be usable with any Combo attacks ?
Also i think Yuusha no Tamashii should remain the same as for Damage Received and Damage done is concerned
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Post by Shadow00X on Feb 22, 2005 20:05:55 GMT -5
I personally think Iryoku is probably one of the best ways to use all them combo attacks in the SC effectively. >>;
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Post by Sigfried on Feb 22, 2005 23:11:46 GMT -5
Good luck with Yuusha Pilot and J-Decker~
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Tarngold
Private
Yume no Yuusha
Posts: 36
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Post by Tarngold on Mar 6, 2005 2:08:13 GMT -5
Ok, ive been discussing it with Mecha a bit, and i think i may have some ideas that would make it a bit more simplified. 1. we need to address the "need-to-tank gauge + no ability to tank". I propose that instead of the Tamashii giving dammage bonus + defense bonus, it should just give a defense bonus, and a higher one at that, say, 10 or 15% per rank(not all 15% cause that would make the defense bonus too high, but at least a dammage received - 65-70% at the highest rank. If you want to give the class the ability to tank, focus on defense, and the yuusha spirit is all about being unbreakable. 2. the guts bonuses are way too complicated. Personally i think they should be attack bonuses(some limited and some permenant depending on how much guts is put into it), and maybe give the option to replenish a certain amount of EN or HP per guts point, which leads me to my last proposal. 3. To solve the gattai problem i propose a new section to the Yuusha class called "Yuusha no Densetsu", which would be like so: If units HP is below 25%, one of two things happen: - If they can Gattai into a higher form, they do so, and regen HP, blah blah, the same as the original Gattai model. In my opinion Yuusha units ability to gattai should be only usable by Yuusha pilot class. other pilots can still use the unit but wont be able to gattai it. - If the Unit has reached its final form(i.e. no more gattai possible), then they go into a hyper mode of sorts(you know Yuusha turn gold sometimes or have that aura of power when faced with a critical situation). The unit would get a small variety of latent abilities. bigger HP regen or defense bonus, and attacks cant be countercut or perhaps cant be dodged, plus maybe a unit's dodge - 7. This Hyper mode is something i havent fully thought of but basically we have two options with it use. We can make it so that it has to be maintained by sacrificing PC or EN. i-If we choose EN, we can have a total percentage of the EN taken away to maintain it so it can be only used for a limited time, or we can choose how long it can be used for, like maybe 3 or 4 turns max, before the unit is burnt out and needs to take some minus effects for a turn or so. So, in short, we need 3 things: - Yuusha ability to tank through a better rank based defensive bonus - a more simplified usage of the guts system(3 1 turn abilities, and 2 or 3 permenant abilities that arent stackable) - a hyper mode of sorts to compensate further for the tanking the unit needs to do, plus adds a kick to a final attack, like the braves always do That Densetsu paragraph may be a bit confusing, but i think you all get the point im trying to make with my concepts. Hope this helps. Tarngold
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