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Post by Seth Valentine on Dec 9, 2004 10:50:31 GMT -5
I don't remember that part, but I do remember that episode where the Aesti's got swarmed by the Battas. Maybe that was it. :/
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Post by Tavish on Dec 15, 2004 0:19:41 GMT -5
Martian SuccessorStarting Max SP: 75 Maximum SP Cap: 150 Skills & Abilities:- Dodge Cost is 13. Minimum Dodge Cost is 5. - Countercut: 2 EN or 5 PCs - Nanomachine Implant: Activates only in a unit with IFS. Dodge Cost is 7, Countercut: 1 EN or 4 PCs. In Mothership Class units, instead of the above bonuses: damage dealt +30%, target's Dodge Cost +5, and lower DC by 5 then re-lock at the lower value. Lieutenant: Countershoot. In size S or SS units, add an additional Dodge Cost -2, target's Dodge Cost +3 and countercut as if you were one size larger. - Boson Jump: Dodge all attacks from one attack phase. Charge 1 unit after each enemy attack phase directed wholly or partly at you; charge 1 unit after a turn in which you are not attacked by an enemy. Private: Start with 1 use, max 1 use. Charge 7 units to regain one use. Corporal: Start with 2 uses, max 2 uses. Charge 7 units to regain one use. Sergeant: Start with 2 uses, max 2 uses. Charge 6 units to regain one use. Ensign: Start with 3 uses, max 3 uses. Charge 6 units to regain one use. Lieutenant: Start with 3 uses, max 3 uses. Charge 5 units to regain one use. - A-Class Jumper: Ignore terrain DC penalties. Lieutenant Martian Successors only. Briefly put, now that we've argued over this for a while, do we want this?
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Post by Seth Valentine on Dec 15, 2004 4:55:11 GMT -5
Martian SuccessorStarting Max SP: 75 Maximum SP Cap: 150 Skills & Abilities:- Dodge Cost is 13. Minimum Dodge Cost is 5. - Countercut: 2 EN or 5 PCs - Nanomachine Implant: Gain all of the following abilities in a unit with IFS: -Dodge Cost is 7, Countercut: 1 EN or 4 PCs. -In size S or SS units, add an additional Dodge Cost -2, target's Dodge Cost +3 and countercut as if you were one size larger. - Lieutenant: Countershoot. -In Mothership Class units, instead of the above bonuses: damage dealt +30%, target's Dodge Cost +5, and lower DC by 5 then re-lock at the lower value. - Boson Jump: Dodge all attacks from one attack phase. Charge 1 unit after each enemy attack phase directed wholly or partly at you; charge 1 unit after a turn in which you are not attacked by an enemy. - Private: Start with 1 use, max 1 use. Charge 7 units to regain one use. - Corporal: Start with 2 uses, max 2 uses. Charge 7 units to regain one use. - Sergeant: Start with 2 uses, max 2 uses. Charge 6 units to regain one use. - Ensign: Start with 3 uses, max 3 uses. Charge 6 units to regain one use. - Lieutenant: Start with 3 uses, max 3 uses. Charge 5 units to regain one use. - A-Class Jumper: Ignore all terrain-based dodge cost penalties. This ability only comes into effect at Lieutenant rank. ------------------------------ Just a minor re-wording, otherwise it's good to go. I did previously have a problem that the DC wasn't lowered by enough, but I noticed that when you're a lietenant you lose even more DC, so that's fine. One thing though - in the Yatenkou and various other Prince of Darkness units, Eis has included a Boson Jump System, which the exact wording includes the word "Bunshin" and that they can only be used if you own a Martian Successor. She specified that you only need to own one, not have one as the pilot. This should be made clearer, and we should have the wording on this changed, in my opinion, to include boson jump. But that's a rant for another thread. The new Martian Successor class is indeed good to go.
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Dec 15, 2004 9:13:22 GMT -5
Seth, that's incorrect because it doesn't give countershoot in motherships. Moving the S/SS bonus isn't a bad idea, I guess, since it's not meant to be lieutenant-restricted - the best order may be (DC, size, mothership, countershoot).
I don't see the point of your rewording of A-Class Jumper (well, Dodge Cost instead of DC) - in fact it's a little less clear. Heavyarms's +10 DC in space, for example, is not meant to be nulled by A-Class Jumper; while it is not a terrain DC penalty, it could be construed as a terrain-based DC penalty.
So just to save the trouble I'll post the edit. This is certainly ready for at least a look at approval.
Martian Successor
Starting Max SP: 75
Maximum SP Cap: 150
Skills & Abilities:
- Dodge Cost is 13. Minimum Dodge Cost is 5. - Countercut: 2 EN or 5 PCs
- Nanomachine Implant: Activates only in a unit with IFS. Dodge Cost is 7, Countercut: 1 EN or 4 PCs. In size S or SS units, add an additional Dodge Cost -2, target's Dodge Cost +3 and countercut as if you were one size larger. In Mothership Class units, instead of the above bonuses: damage dealt +30%, target's Dodge Cost +5, and lower DC by 5 then re-lock at the lower value. Lieutenant: Countershoot.
- Boson Jump: Dodge all attacks from one attack phase. Charge 1 unit after each enemy attack phase directed wholly or partly at you; charge 1 unit after a turn in which you are not attacked by an enemy. Private: Start with 1 use, max 1 use. Charge 7 units to regain one use. Corporal: Start with 2 uses, max 2 uses. Charge 7 units to regain one use. Sergeant: Start with 2 uses, max 2 uses. Charge 6 units to regain one use. Ensign: Start with 3 uses, max 3 uses. Charge 6 units to regain one use. Lieutenant: Start with 3 uses, max 3 uses. Charge 5 units to regain one use.
- A-Class Jumper: Ignore terrain Dodge Cost penalties. Lieutenant Martian Successors only.
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Post by Seth Valentine on Dec 15, 2004 10:20:24 GMT -5
Yeah, you're right. But could you separate the different points in the IFS section with dashes right next to them or something?
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Post by Regris Kallen on Dec 15, 2004 11:38:54 GMT -5
- Nanomachine Implant: Activates only in a unit with IFS. Dodge Cost is 7, Countercut: 1 EN or 4 PCs. In size S or SS units, add an additional Dodge Cost -2, target's Dodge Cost +3 and countercut as if you were one size larger. In Mothership Class units, instead of the above bonuses: damage dealt +30%, target's Dodge Cost +5, and lower DC by 5 then re-lock at the lower value. Lieutenant: Countershoot. That needs to be reworked... badly.
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Dec 15, 2004 11:52:54 GMT -5
I don't suppose you could be more specific?
The S/SS +3 TDC was a little random (as I said above, just trying to find a power balance, and easy to take off if admins want) but it's not like we just threw the rest of that together.
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Post by Seth Valentine on Dec 16, 2004 7:18:58 GMT -5
The following post is taking the information that has been supplied by Kait and DF, plus a little of my own opinionated ranting.
Well, Martian Successors are able to countershoot because they have excellent aim in an Aestivalis, which just so happens to be a unit with IFS, because they can see better (the same reason they can countercut and move faster and therefore for cheaper.). And (correct me if I'm wrong) the IFS allows them to use the machines so well, that the machine is like an extra part of their body.
The IFS signature also has a effect within Motherships because we know that all of the bridge crew of the Nadesico have nanomachines, and their hands glow as they activate the console. The captain herself has an implant.
Maybe it does need to be reworked a little bit, but not "badly" as such. The Target's Dodge Cost may need to be removed, but I personally think it makes sense, considering that the mech would be moving faster. And the better countercut in smaller units makes perfect sense also.
Think about the actual units that HAVE IFS (not including motherships. Not very powerful are they? The Aestivalis, when separated from the Nadesico, is very weak, and without frame switch is extremely weak. The Black Salena is rather powerful, but it is not that common a unit, nor is as good compared to some others. The Custom Aestis are total crap without a Nadesico, so to speak.
Then there's the motherships. There are TONS of better motherships, but I will admit the Nadesico is rather good, if not excellent.
Now, an Aestivalis AND a Nadesico, with a Martian Successor in each. Unstoppable, perhaps. But I know many people who could work around this.
Finally, I bring up the purchasable installible that is IFS. It's only 750 now, but after the improvement of the IFS ability, if we use DF's suggestion, 750 isn't much for complete power in any unit. The price could be pumped up or something. Easy fix.
Although there ARE slight tweaks that may need to be done to fine-tune the proposal, it's actually rather acurate if we bring the series into consideration. And we get a better IFS ability in sacrifice of the old, broken Boson Jump. So is it really that bad?
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Post by Kira Yamato on Dec 16, 2004 9:54:47 GMT -5
we've never seen Yurika use the Implant because she only got it in the final episode, Ruri however, indeed does, but she's never really taken control of the ship during PoD. she was busy trying to take control of everyone else's
and also, Minato does not appear to have an IFS, so being A-Class Jumper or not has no effect on Mothership's dodge cost.
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Dec 16, 2004 10:12:20 GMT -5
The relevant operator as far as mothership IFS goes is Ruri, in both Nadesico and PoD. The improved mothership DC reflects the operator's improved synchronization with the mothership, not anything to do with boson jumping. (My limited information resources say there was actually a term - "IFS Level 10" - for the level of Ruri's synchronization in PoD. Regardless, part of the movie is "Now that Ruri is with the Nadesico C all our asses are saved," so I don't think this is an unreasonable kind of bonus to grant.)
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Post by Regris Kallen on Dec 16, 2004 10:39:45 GMT -5
Okay, honestly, I like the mothership stuff. It makes a class aside from Tensai and SR classes good in motherships, so I don't mind it that much. Also, I don't have a problem with countershoot, either, as it makes reasonable sense.
Still, though, the S/SS thing just seems kinda out of place. Why don't you juat give them a generalized small boost in units with IFS, like the old IFS mods were?
Honestly, I like the mothership thing. It makes the class a bit more unique, but the whole CC a size larger thing kinda is out of place. Aestis... really didn't CC much. Heck, the only thing I remember CCing a lot game-wise was the Yatenkou, but he's a dirty bastard anyways. A lot of the PoD units don't even have CC, kinda proving my point that the people in Nadesico relied a bit more on ranged weapons and Distortion attacks. :x
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Dec 16, 2004 11:16:04 GMT -5
Well, for my part I've made it clear elsewhere that I don't like the size-based CC penalty, so it's possible that I don't see eye-to-eye with everyone on that. If that's how it is, of course, I won't exactly lose sleep over the "CC as one size larger" being removed - but I put that in because it didn't make sense to me that when a smaller unit was supposed to be more responsive with IFS, it'd countercut worse.
Unlike most of the other stuff, I think you're the only other person really to have expressed an opinion on the "one size larger" part.
(Don't worry! I really will be away and actually unable to reply to this thread soon!)
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Post by Seth Valentine on Dec 16, 2004 11:18:47 GMT -5
we've never seen Yurika use the Implant because she only got it in the final episode, Ruri however, indeed does, but she's never really taken control of the ship during PoD. she was busy trying to take control of everyone else'sand also, Minato does not appear to have an IFS, so being A-Class Jumper or not has no effect on Mothership's dodge cost. Firstly Kira... you don't just GET an Implant. She had that implant all her life because she had been born on the Utopia Colony. She only revealed that she had one in the final episode. Secondly, its CLEAR in the opening, or at least SOMEWHERE, that Minato has the ability to use IFS. I have a specific memory of her placing her hand on the control panel and it glowing. Thirdly, Ruri is the CAPTAIN of the Nadesico B/C in PoD. How is that not controlling it? : / I will be obtaining PoD for Christmas, so more details then, but I know for sure that Ruri has the ability to use IFS, as does Minato, but the only people that have implants are Yurika, Ines, and of course, Akito Tenkawa, while everyone else has Nanomachines. On another note, perhaps we should drop the SS thing. But just because they relied more on certain weaponry in the show doesn't mean that they wouldn't have been able to countercut better if they had CHOSEN to.
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Dec 16, 2004 11:22:37 GMT -5
Well, if you ask if Yurika controls the Nadesico... But yes, Ruri was much more hands-on for part of the movie. Minato wasn't in the episode where everyone with nanomachines went crazy. The glowing-hands part in the opening is Ruri's hands.
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Post by Regris Kallen on Dec 16, 2004 11:28:03 GMT -5
It's not just the show Seth, the games, too.
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