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Post by tarbis on Jan 8, 2005 8:32:54 GMT -5
No need to reword in the hangar, only needs to change 1 post about (X) type in the rule server.
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Post by WesleyGibson on Jan 8, 2005 21:14:30 GMT -5
My personal feeling is we should stay with a percentage based cap. It allows for scaling of the number of hits based on the overall power of each unit. As to basing cost modifications I disagree for a few reasons.
1.) By basing it on damage you're in all likelihood going to penalize units that deserve strong (X) weapons in relation to other units. Hi-Nu gundam for example is meant to go around funneling the crap out of it's enemies. It inflicts very good damage for this reason and I see no reason to make it's hissatsu less effective for being exactly what it should be.
2.) Basing the (X) cap purely on damage neglects the fact that as inflicted damage climbs, the cost of an (X) weapon also increases. Space squid missle or dimensional coupler gun for example both inflict damage in excess of 50 HP per shot, but their cost is so prohibative that even with our lenient rules, the number of shots they get can be counted on one hand. If you lower the cap based on damage and we continue with a percentage based rule (Which I think is most favorable) you could very well end up with these attacks being single shot when they aren't meant to be. Admittedly we already have a few (X) weapons that have this deficiency but fixing those is not what we're out for.
3.) A rule like that would decrease the overall effectiveness of certain pay as you go effects, most notably hot blood. If I'm paying a full 40 SP to boost my attacking power, and iron wall only costs 30 and is doubly effective, I'd appreciate it if the usefulness of my SP use weren't going to be gimped. Similar effects like psychoframe also see strength decreases.
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Post by Aslan Cross on Jan 9, 2005 18:44:16 GMT -5
While fixing the amount of hits is definitely a problem that needs to be fixed, can't we just lower the bonuses the A-ups give first? I still think the amount of damage that (X) weapons can deal contributes to their cheesiness.
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Post by Signal on Jan 9, 2005 23:10:30 GMT -5
I do believe that what needs is refixing the number of hits of those weapons since some weapons are a bit overhitting and they are not like a bajillion hits like Gunbuster's Homing Laser or Ideon's All Directional Attack which makes them alot more efficient to use(and abusable too in some major cases). Which is why i believe the changing of their hit ranges should be which is what makes (X)'s very chessy.
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Post by Umbaglo on Jan 10, 2005 0:00:10 GMT -5
While damage has some aspect, it's the number of hits that really matters in most cases. Raw damage will break defences, but since most classes don't have that much reduction usually, it'd easier to beat them down to the point where it's a dodge or die case. And when it gets to that, number of hits is what breaks them.
I mean, remember Hissatsu Powaa? It wasn't the fact that you has 113 damage San Ryu Kons, it was the fact that you shot 50 of them that killed people. An (X) can deal tons of damage, but if you can only shoot 2 or 3 hits, that's not as hard to handle as if you could shoot a billion.
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Post by Aslan Cross on Jan 10, 2005 1:23:17 GMT -5
I think that point has been made pretty clear. Nevertheless, I don't want this discussion to get bogged down for prolonged periods of time while we wait for a solution, and just because the number of hits is a bigger problem doesn't mean we should ignore the smaller, but still significant problem of damage values.
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Post by Mechalomaniac on Jan 10, 2005 1:40:35 GMT -5
Well, for now nerfing the bonus A-Ups give (X)'s to +3 sounds reasonable to me, if not a short term fix while the bigger issue is worked on, and re-evaluate them at a later time when said changes are worked out.
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Post by Arad Baranga on Jan 10, 2005 2:05:28 GMT -5
I think we should just lower the A-Up bonus to damage for all weapons instead of just (X). The EN boost was recently cut down on them, which was the real source of the (X)s' additional boost from it on (SC) at least.
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Post by Eis Attacker! Ver.W on Jan 10, 2005 2:59:53 GMT -5
Well, another solution is that we could make it so that the % cap is determined from the original EN values, and is not affected by any installables. That way, you'll still get more EN, but the (X) spam is controlled to what was originally intended for the unit~
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Post by Kyousuke Sumeragi on Jan 10, 2005 10:12:48 GMT -5
Why not make the A-UPs bonus for the (X) (R) and (V)-types give +50% instead?
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Post by Tilus on Jan 10, 2005 11:10:16 GMT -5
No, because then that'd make them *MORE* powerful on beefier weapons.
...But +3 or +5 does sound good.
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Post by Aslan Cross on Jan 10, 2005 21:39:45 GMT -5
I think dropping the bonus to +5 for (X) weapons is fine. What about # and x weapons?
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Post by Mechalomaniac on Jan 10, 2005 21:52:51 GMT -5
How about lowering it to +3 for (X) and +5 for x weapons? # and (R) would be fine as is since you only need to dodge/Flash/Bunshin to avoid them.
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Post by Aslan Cross on Jan 10, 2005 22:05:04 GMT -5
That could work too. That should be alright.
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Post by RurouninMao on Jan 11, 2005 9:15:24 GMT -5
Im fine with it
Oh about the (R), doesnt it still count as multi hits if you didnt dodge or flash it?
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