New Dodging and Weapons System

[Aslan Cross]

The suggestions I gave were only for consideration if changing the whole system was necessary at all. Personally I think we should just go with changing the post-battle expenses, as Kait and Johnny suggested. That way a boardwide testing period won't really be necessary.

[Arad Baranga]

And then in the meantime we could tool around with a theoretical Whole New System all we want.

[Avitar Diggs]

Well, i'm absolutely against the idea of losing all PCs after a battle. I lose enough as it is...

I have another idea. Let's make DC a ratio compared to the PC limit. That way, it changes proportionally no matter how many PCs you fight with.

[Mechalomaniac]

Kait and Johnny's suggestions fix the problem with people not wanting to dodge, which is good. However, the problem still exists that dodging isn't as useful as tanking.

You have a finite number of dodges. That number can be decreased, or increased depending on what you or your opponent do, but there's still a finite number and that can not be replenished. In order for a tanker to beat a dodger, said tanker only need outlast the dodger's resources. It's been said many times before, but you can replenish HP, the lifeblood of tanking through Seishin, Items, and even unit inherent abilities. You can't do this with dodge points, and until you can tanking will largely remain better than dodging.

[Aslan Cross]

In SRW, dodging is infinite, since you're fighting AI anyway. And more often than not, killing AI units is easy. Here, however, we need a limiting factor to fights. We can't just have them dodging forever. That's what the PC limit does.

I'm not really sure about whether tanking in the SC is more effective than it is in SRW---it's hard to tell in SRW because the AI misses more often than not, anyway. I think the main reason why tanking in the SC is so much more effective is because of all the different kinds of damage reduction one can buy, not to mention that damage reduction applies in stages.

Barrier items in SRW aren't really that common, and they also eat into your resources a lot because you can't turn them off.

I suggested a long time ago that a good way to nerf barriers may be to have them activate whenever you get hit, whether you like it or not. (Like in SRW) It makes them a bit less flexible and consumes resources faster.

Then again, this is easily solved by EN regen (Regen really solves a lot of problems in the SC, anyway), and it doesn't address the problem of other sources of damage reduction. Coupled with pilots being able to use repair on themselves, it can lead to nasty stalemates. (See Here Come the In-laws in SC2)

Even with the Dynamic classes recently nerfed, huge attacks can still be reduced to less than 1% of the original damage. (The Resist seishin notwithstanding) I'm at a loss as to how to fix this.

I also think a noteworthy fact about SRW is that you can miss without your opponent even dodging. All pilots not only have a dodge stat but an accuracy stat as well. Some are bad shots while some are really good shots. We emulate the part about NTs and the like being better shots than others, but we don't really emulate that some pilots aren't good shots. Then again I don't really want to hit the SR classes with a nerf again, unless absolutely necessary.

[Arad Baranga]

I don't mind Barriers being automatic, like-it-or-not. It makes more sense that way anyway.
Concerning Repair, we should just remove the ability to use it on yourself altogether. It's unfounded and makes support units a lot better than they have any right to be.

I dunno if we really need to smack tanking beyond that. I've got guys in SRW to go around taking 10 Damage easily, once their morale is up and Potential/Mazin Power start taking effect. We could increase damage output however, and definitely rework dodging. I have noticed that several attacks in SRW (most notably vulcans and beam sabers) tend to do a lot better in the base damage department than they do here, even unupgraded.

[Beanoverse]

Just a suggestion for the dodging system that I discussed with the old High Command back then. Forgive me if this has been suggested before~

Like Aslan said, dodging should be infinite like in the games, but must also limits itself by being a randomizer that depends on luck (so that the match doesn't go on forever). So the idea is to use a mathematical constant that changes often, combined with pilot/unit stats.

One variable factor that is the time a post is made (board time). Unless the player is really perching there waiting for the right number that benefits him/her the most, there is just no way to modify the fact you get hit or successfully dodge.

Here's an example:

A attacks B at 10:02pm. We take 1 and 2, and add them together for 3. Now we use 3 and use +1 or -1 modifiers, based on how fast the unit is. Other factors count in as well, such as pilot/weapon accuracy, which would +x to the enemy's dodge. It's limited though... in the range of 10 or 20. For 10, 1-5 means dodge, 6-10 means hit. And so on~

In a given 10 minutes, you will probably have a progressive amount of results with (say 10 pm) 1+1 which is 2, then next minute 1+2 = 3, 4, 5, until 10. Everything else depends on the extra modifiers... some hit better real often, some miss more. Just like in the real thing~

The only thing is the range of modifiers can be quite short, seeing how many types of mechas and combos we can. With correct combinations, the system could be abused through making yourself totally hit-proof, with all the modifiers keep minusing your resulting constant. It's like only those with super high accuracy can hit you or something...

Well, it's only on paper, and without testing I can't say what other factors or bugs might come in. Anyhow that's my proposal for a totally non-PC dodging system. ;D

[Umbaglo]

Like I said in my proposal, I don't really think that tanking needs many further changes. The problem is that they can tank, regen, then tank again, but a dodger cannot. Removing this inability is the first step.

[Ta-kun]

well... there's another option. Rooster's online dice. if organizated correctly (like 2 versions of the dice per chamber, and some modifications to the very same script to allow it to store more than 50 records) it would allow us to add the somewhat hidden "luck" factor. the we set up a minimum number for dodging and if the dice is bigger than such number is succefully dodged, also if the number is much lower critical hist can be added.

repairing costs? great idea, it would seriouslly enhance the SC economy.

I still have not seen a word on the chance to add legal bets or so >.>; but maybe that's a bit too much for us, PCD mods to handle.

[Aslan Cross]

That would require people to go into the channel, however, and not everyone is exactly willing to do that.

Not to mention that it will prevent me from posting in school, as IRC is inaccessible from there...

As for repair costs, my proposal for them was half-hearted, at the most. One of the biggest complains about the current system is that it costs money to dodge, and adding repair costs would make losing very, very, very, painful.

[RurouninMao]

Well if the New Dodge thing got pass, then we can have repair cost now ^^

[Umbaglo]

Actually, if my proposal goes through, I'd like to push a version of Kait and DF's "ante" proposal, where the participants put up some amount of cash upfront to pay for the match. I like the idea of having to pay BEFORE the match, because it then puts a halt on people who get into fights and don't have enough PCs before the end, for whatever reasons.

[RurouninMao]

Wait is that pay PC during application or Pay Pc before starting the match?

[Tavish]

I'd imagine before starting the match. There are matches which get queued and never happen. It'd be a pain in the neck to track accounts on those.

[Signal]

Pay PC's (or betting in more common terms) seems good, though would you guys want to see my other idea posted here.(sorry got mixed up recently due to tight schedules) T__T

And that includes fuel and stuff, as for the RR DC's i might scratch that ones out.