|
Post by Signal on Jan 3, 2005 23:26:52 GMT -5
Ok lets discuss all the aspects affected by this suggestions... 1) Seperate Dodge points to be used for dodging 2) Weapons consuming(especially the PC based ones) 3) Abilities that consume PC's 4) Countercut and Countershoot(if PC Based)
|
|
|
Post by Umbaglo on Jan 3, 2005 23:30:19 GMT -5
For all the home viewers out there, it would have been nice if you posted what everything was. Remember, not everyone comes to the channel.
|
|
|
Post by Signal on Jan 3, 2005 23:31:57 GMT -5
Edited!
*points above and thinks of a new idea*
|
|
|
Post by Umbaglo on Jan 3, 2005 23:33:59 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Ta-kun on Jan 3, 2005 23:56:56 GMT -5
Ok, this is my proposal, it's basicly the same as we use now, but PCs are not involved in dodging anymore. Instead each mech will have a Dodge Gauge tm. that will be diferent in each mech, acting as the thruster Fuel of the mech, if you run out of DG you cannot dodge, since we can't dodge forever.
1.- what about PC based weapons? skils? and related?
We should keep the PC pool for the battles, but this should be lowered, to the half or so. cuz this pool will be ONLY for weapons/skills (this includes CC and CS)
2.- what about tanking?
Aslan said it in the channel, it should be nerfed...
3.- advantages?
We will be able to create/adapt items that will regen the DG, also a seishin. Furthermore, dodge modifier skills and items will now effect DG too. For example, the tesla drive would enhance the MAX DG.
diferent mechs will have diferent DGs, this will make nastirting a bit more dificult (maybe) also calculations will be easier since they're separated.
this will make more notorious the diference between similar units, speedy units will not only have the simple "DC -5" we always see, but also a larger ammount of DG points, IMHO slower units will need better armor tho...
4- Whats the risks in fights now if you don't loose as many PCs?[/color]
Aslan asked this, so I'm going to answer... we MUST add a betting system, PLUS, the people who fight can estipulate an entrance fee for the fight which is not refundable.
5- why this?[/color]
because dodging for PCs is useless... and since we cannot add probabilities to this game withouth freezing the complete SC for a month OR changing to another board... we should try to adapt our current system
|
|
|
Post by Aslan Cross on Jan 4, 2005 0:06:00 GMT -5
I think the system itself right now isn't terribly bad. Of course it's not perfect, but a huge overhaul that will paralyze the whole community isn't something I want to risk in the near future. In fact, many of the imbalance problems that appear may be the result of changing too fast. Think seriously about this, because this is a massive change and will affect everything about the game. We might not even enjoy it anymore when it's done.
|
|
|
Post by Sytax on Jan 4, 2005 20:13:05 GMT -5
I don't think theres anything wrong with at least looking at other possible systems thou. I mean its not like we're suggesting they should be applied without some serious thought and consideration first.
As it stands PC dodging is limited to 30 dodges a fight, which is non recoverable not only that as it stands there are plenty of items which can make this number even smaller. Where as when tanking you can recover your HP in several varried ways including (SP, items, repair and HP regen) and limit the damage you recieve to negligible amounts. At any rate I think its been commented on by enough people to at least warrant looking over.
Personally i'm more interested in doing away with dodging based on PCs as I don't see why one method of fighting requires money to pull off while another doesn't. Although this would require some other method for limiting fight lengths.
|
|
|
Post by WesleyGibson on Jan 4, 2005 20:30:45 GMT -5
The suggestion I liked most was replacing the PC pool we use now for dodging with a dodging pool and having items and seshin that are capable of refilling that pool. Dodging on a renewable resource would really help to correct for the disparity between dodging and tanking.
|
|
|
Post by Avitar Diggs on Jan 4, 2005 21:23:53 GMT -5
I think we really need to address the main flaw of this game beofre we go into what I see as a secondary problem.
There are not many variables in the game. Everyone knows who's gonna win a fight by deploy, even before, since we can guess what items they'll bring. It can make game, well, boring and reduces 1 on 1 to nothing but PC farming. Any DC pools and stuff might change battles in favor of others, but in the end , you still kno who's going to win in the end. So, the first change i'd like to nominate that would be fairly easy to implement is int implementation of blind deploys.
Basically, the only thing you know beforehand is who your opponent is and the terrain. mech stipulations are given, like M sized units Sergeant to Ensign, but no specific suits are named. that way, when the battle actually starts, there's an element of suprise. You could still add in extra stipulations banning certain items, suits, chips etc., but you have no idea what setup your opponent will bring.
Now, this doesn't totally eliminate all variables. People have deploy habits, favorite suits/classes and the like, but you never know. You could have a great anti-mazin setup prepared and you end up fighting atheir Personal Trooper instead. Also, once both sides deploy, you can calculate who will win still, but at least you can't clearly decide who will win beofre the fight begins now.
A major problem will be deploys. right now, the person who deploys first in a fight is at a clear disadvantage becasue their oppnent can read their deploy and bring the approiate items. A system will have to be developed to hide deploys unitll fights are opened. A hack could be created that hides and locks posts unitll a moderator opens the fight.
For testing purposes, one fight can be done using the blind deploy method by PMing the moderator their deploys and allowing them to post it for them.
This would not change game play too much, because people couls still use the current fight method if they choose. This is just another option to try and make fights more exciting.
|
|
|
Post by Sytax on Jan 5, 2005 0:42:58 GMT -5
Thats not really changing anything except the way its played making it completely random.... and making fights based on guesswork. Not only that but classification based on rank and size fall apart when you consider all the units at lieutenant level.
I think Wes your right, it would make a big difference if dodging was renewble rather than set as a fixed source.
|
|
|
Post by CowboyJohnny on Jan 5, 2005 7:56:55 GMT -5
Amazing, I agreed with Avitar... at least for a paragraph. Blind deploys, just in the sense that you could send your deploy somewhere and "have deployed" without your opponent being able to see it, would be a very good step. It'd be nice if we could set up a system that didn't require as much work for everyone as PMing the mods every single deploy, in any case.
As for the rest: in general I'm amenable to changing how dodges work, but all I can tell from what Ta-kun posted is that this would be an enormous overhaul of some sort or another.
|
|
|
Post by Arad Baranga on Jan 5, 2005 9:02:36 GMT -5
I'd be happy to be a channel for blind deploys in SC2, though I admit that may be a bit of a hassle when you want your fight started quickly.
|
|
|
Post by Berrik on Jan 5, 2005 14:11:44 GMT -5
Thats not really changing anything except the way its played making it completely random.... and making fights based on guesswork. Not only that but classification based on rank and size fall apart when you consider all the units at lieutenant level. I think Wes your right, it would make a big difference if dodging was renewble rather than set as a fixed source. In SRW, do you ever know exactly the nature of your opposition before you get to deploy? Usually, you have to send a force equipped to handle ANYTHING, and not just something specifically tailored to the enemy.
|
|
|
Post by Rooster on Jan 5, 2005 15:32:57 GMT -5
It wouldn't be hard to write up a blind deploy script. It just has to hold a few fields with some concealing of information until it's all in.
Plus, it then becomes an optional stip like size tags and such.
|
|
|
Post by Tilus on Jan 5, 2005 17:35:11 GMT -5
As for the new dodging thing, I've encountered two main problems regarding it: 1) tanking > dodging, and 2) PC-based (X) attacks instantly slay non-SR pilots.
As for 1), personally I think we've performed enough nerfs on the SR classes to pretty well even out the line between tanking and dodging. With Dairyoku no longer sticking permanently, Greater Perseverance is no longer the be all end all make-SRs-immortal seishin it was before. I think we should just leave this matter alone and let the current system get tested out in the real world before we decide to do anything else with the matter.
For 2), I still don't quite understand why the Hangar mods haven't taken their Magical Pikopiko Nerf Hammers(tm) to the various abusable PC-based (X)es, such as San Ryu Kon. Converting some of them to new (R) attribute currently undergoing massive debate might help this (for those not in the know, (R) is to # multihits as (X) is to x multihits.. in other words, an (R) functions like an (X) except you only have to dodge once to completely dodge an (R) attack).
And finally, about a blind deploy script.. It sounds like an interesting idea, and with a few tweaks I'd be in favor of it, but making blind deploying the rule would basically ruin alot of the fun in the SC, as you're basically throwing evo series out the window, and weaker evo units would never get used.. I'd be fine with making it an extra stipulation, like with the size rules. Also, I'm not too keen on forcing complete blind deploys each time blind deploy is used.. maybe the script can be set up to allow for certain sections of deploying remain visible but others to remain hidden (for example, your unit is visible but your pilot class and your items are not)?
|
|