|
Post by Yanbetari on Dec 3, 2004 8:51:03 GMT -5
A question, then. For (M) and (P) attacks that become the new multi-hit, what happens if you Link Combo them?
Example: Heat Shotel (M) - 55 damage # 2
Would Link Combo make it?
a) (M) 55 damage # 3 b) (M) 55 damage x 3 c) (M) 55 damage # 2 x 2 d) (M) 55 damage #2 + (M) 55 damage e) None of the above?
|
|
|
Post by Umbaglo on Dec 3, 2004 11:49:08 GMT -5
# is still added hits, so it would increase the number of those hits.
|
|
|
Post by CowboyJohnny on Dec 11, 2004 21:11:35 GMT -5
While this is still a neat idea, I wonder if widespread implementation won't push things in favor of dodging over tanking; while consensus hasn't become solid yet, people seem to think RR pilots and SR pilots are much closer to balanced right now than they have been for a while.
|
|
|
Post by Yanbetari on Dec 12, 2004 0:31:53 GMT -5
I'd like to point out that this has no grounds being implemented yet. There are still concerns about how things work and why. Furthermore, this had not been completely overwhelmingly supported, or even discussed fully. Some key concerns over exactly what will be effected still remain, especially when dealing with (M) weaponry. The primary quallification is that the weapons strike at the same time, and from the same direction in the case of weapons. However, the problem here is that just because an attack can land multiple hits at the same time doesn't nessecarrily means it has to. A suit with two beam sabers could slash with both at once, or slash downward with one, then bring the second accross a moment later. Also still to be debated is the effect of a Link Combo on a # weapon. It seems to have been arbitrarily decided it adds another # hit, and the primary reason for this is the way Link Combo is worded. "Adds an extra hit to any ONE SINGLE weapon.", with the justification that a # is a hit. However, the flaw with this is that the wording on Link Combo was written when there was only one kind of hit to add, thus no special consideration was needed for non-standard hits. Extending on this is the fact that making an extra # hit is illogical. If a weapon has 3 barrels, which fixed relative to each other, it fires 3 # hits. If you add a Link Combo, it now fires 4. Now, for a weapon with 3 barrels to fire 4 shots, at least one of the barrels must fire twice, and the shots from any repeating barrels must be temporally separated enough that they are recognizable as distinct hits. Given this lag, unless the weapon was some sort of massive cannon that caused the mech to be unable to move for a period after firing, the attacking mech could adjust its aim, causing the enemy to dodge again. So, because # indicates no variation in firing angle or time, there must be 4 shots fired at once, meaning that the weapon must be modified to somehow gain an extra barrel. This is a highly questionable modification to be made, especially with weapons that are integrated into a mech's head or torso. The same argument applies to (M) weapons, as for these # represents supposedly simultaneous strikes. Now, for a suit that already has two simultaneous strikes, like say Sandrock Custom, to gain a third, it must then gain another of the weapon used. So Link Combo would cause Sandrock to gain a third Heat Shotel, as well as a third arm with which to wield it. Another complaint is that this change seems to harm any class that relies on non-evasive single-attack defenses. Non-All Barriers, Shields, Countercut. These all become relatively weaker. Before it was more efficient to use these defenses, as the multiple hits make dodging costly. But now when given the choice to dodge once, or barrier/shield/countercut 3 times, the non-evasive abilites quickly become too expensive to be feasible. Now, I acknowledge that I'm only one person, and not even a mod, but I fail to see sufficient support for this to warrant it. So far, only 4 mods have commented on it, only one of whom is a Hangar mod, newly appointed, and potentially temporary. I've seen no word from any of the Admins, Gmods, or other Hangar Mods. And maybe they have discussed this extensively in the Modbox (Central Dogma), however, we have heard nothing of any such discussion or reasoning, if any even exists. If this is to be implemented, these concerns should be addressed, and the topic in general commented and reasoned on by the upper staff.
|
|
|
Post by Umbaglo on Dec 12, 2004 1:10:34 GMT -5
You do realize that your example (M) would not be considered for #, right? I mean, the only (M) types attacks this is for is stuff like "I reach forward and maul you with my paws". Obviously swinging a saber a few times is not hitting the same location at the same time.
|
|
|
Post by Yanbetari on Dec 12, 2004 10:01:14 GMT -5
That's part of the problem. What exactly was affected wasn't clearly defined. You listed Heat Shotel as a # weapon, and while the SRW animation might show it always swinging both overhead at the same time, there's no rule saying it has to, and there's probably a couple times in the show when he uses them differently.
|
|
|
Post by Umbaglo on Dec 12, 2004 10:53:12 GMT -5
I don't see how much clearer the defination can get. And I was mistaken about Heat Shotel. Happy now?
|
|
|
Post by WesleyGibson on Dec 12, 2004 11:30:29 GMT -5
The # attack on weapons like strike laser claw makes pretty good sense. However I can't say I think the way in which they stack makes much sense at all.
Taking the example of the Liger, for me to use strike laser claw for two hits, I need to pounce on you. There really is no reasonable way for me to initiate another hit in a pounce without an additional front facing limb. Even if swinging again were somehow feasible in the course of that pounce, it would make no sense for me to swing again at the same spot after you jumped out of my range, or sidestepped my mech. Similarly swinging before the pounce hits makes no sense because I'm out of clawing range (I'd have pounced on you by then if I wasn't).
There's a reason we call this thing "Link Combo" it produces an additional hit at the end of an action, a combination of attacks. For you to use that hit, just like for the use of any true multi-hit (M) you need to keep up with a dodging enemy until the end of your attack phase. You've said heat shortel won't be affected by this change and will stay x 2 (on custom anyway). For it to remain x 2 I have to be able to step forward and track my enemy to make my second swing. Jumping back from Sandrock accomplishes the exact same thing it does against a liger after all. Standing around swinging after I missed my opponent wouldn't make any sense, so the addition of some tracking time is implicit, just like it would be in a weapon that inherently hits two or more times sequentially.
|
|