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Post by MaullarMaullar on Feb 28, 2005 12:40:53 GMT -5
On what basis? Some bosses are just stronger than others, and besides, Neo Granzon is worth the trouble.
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Post by WesleyGibson on Feb 28, 2005 20:47:59 GMT -5
I only lost two of my fights with granzon you know kouji. It's plenty powerful man.
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Post by Aslan Cross on Mar 1, 2005 3:18:37 GMT -5
Granzon is pretty strong now, and the current form was a result of a consensus of the mods about which versions we're supposed to use. In the older games, Granzon was pathetic, it didn't even have a barrier and Worm Smasher was a single-hitter. I doubt it even had any form of regen. Our current form is a compromise between Alpha (which had the Proto-Shukutaihou) and OG (where it had 44000 HP, Waikyoku field, and both HP and EN regen.)
Also, Thrudgelmir's new attacks take off about half of its EN. Granzon's Black Hole Cluster is round-based.
Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that the Issen Hoshinagi no Tachi attack was mentioned either in-game or by the producer in an interview.
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Post by Tavish on Mar 1, 2005 4:48:54 GMT -5
The only thing that bugs me about Granzon is that two of its weapons switch between EN and round-based.
The Prototype Shukutaihou is round-based, yet becomes EN-based as the Shukutaihou.
The Gravitron Cannon starts off EN-based, and then Neo Granzon has limited ammo for it.
It's just an inconsistency that disturbs me, although it's no big deal in the end.
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Post by Julius Firefocht on Mar 4, 2005 10:02:28 GMT -5
All right, the Granzon/Neo Granzon just got updated, and I personally feel that something is really not right about it. Let us do some comparisons between similar bosses, shall we? Neo GranzonStatistics: HP: 550, EN: 200, IS: 1, Move: F/G, Size: L, Class: Final BossWeapons: Energy Drain- EN Drain 25%, 2 rounds Gran Worm Sword (M)- 50 damage Worm Smasher (SX)- 40 damage/3 EN Black Hole Cluster- DESTROY:L2, 80 EN/shot Shukutaihou- DESTROY:L3, 3 rounds
MAP Attacks: Gravitron Cannon (I:5)- 250 damage, 2 rounds Big Bang Wave (I:5)- DESTROY:L2, 5 roundsInherent Abilities: 1) Usable by Lieutenants or higher 2) Countercut 3) HP/EN Regen 25% 4) Z.O. Alloy (Armor): Damage Received -50% 5) Waikyoku Field (Barrier) 6) Seishin Canceller 7) Shukutaihou: Target's Dodge Cost +10Evolution Cost: 10 Evo Points (Granzon)
Hanger Resale Value: 1500 PCs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Valcion Kai
Statistics:HP: 600, EN: 200, IS: 1, Move: F/G, Size: L, Class: Final Boss [/color] Weapons: Energy Drain- 25% EN Drain, 4 rounds Armor Breaker- Armor Break, 6 rounds Jam Grenade- Accuracy Break, 6 rounds Divine Arm (MS)- 80 damage Cross Smasher- 300 damage, 20 rounds Mega Graviton Wave- (SX) 50 damage/2 EN Mega Flasher- 350 damage, 25 EN/attack Black Hole Cluster- DESTROY:L2, 80 EN/attack
MAP Attacks: Big Bang Wave (I:7)- DESTROY:L2, 8 rounds Mega Graviton Wave (I:10)- 350 damage, 40 EN/attackInherent Abilities: 1) Usable by Lieutenants or higher 2) Countercut 3) HP/EN Regen 25% 4) Damage Received -60% 5) Waikyoku Field (Barrier) 6) Beam Absorb 7) Cross Smasher: Target's Dodge Cost +10 8) Mega Flasher: Target's Dodge Cost +7Evolution Cost: 10 Evo Points (Valcion)
Hanger Resale Value: 2500 PCs [/quote] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- First of all, the Axion Cannon is a D:L2 which costs 20 EN, while the Black Hole Cluster of both Neo Granzon and Valcion Kai costs 80 EN. Are there any reasons for such a difference in energy costs between weapons that essentially accomplish the same damage? Secondly, the Infinity Cylinder is a D:L3 which costs 60 EN, with EN Regen counted in, it will cost 10 EN per turn, allowing it to fire off 20 D:L3s consecutively. Compare that to the Neo Granzon's Shukutaihou which can only fire for 3 rounds. I thought the Neo Granzon is a more powerful machine than the Astranagun? Why is a Boss class unit arguably more useful than a Final Boss class unit? Finally, the Neo Granzon is statistically the weakest unit out of the above 3 units. Stick a Tensai with a Pink Haro into the Astranagun and it will kick more ass than a Tensai in a Neo Granzon, thanks to unlimited Infinity Cylinders, Nendou Field S and Bunshin. The Valcion Kai WILL plaster the Neo Granzon into the ground if Tensais of equal level are in both machines. Is that supposed to be the case, storywise? I know that the updates to the Neo Granzon are due to new stats being released in SRW games, but this is a bit overdoing it. I do not want to spend 2200 PCs and go through 10 fights just to own a unit that will get crushinated in matches against other units in its own class.
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Post by Berrik on Mar 4, 2005 10:12:06 GMT -5
Signed. Neo Granzon is supposed to be the most powerful thing in SRW, and it's sad that it's reduced to this. edit: Also Astranagun needs to be beat with the nerf stick until it's barely recognizable. I one hitted it the first time I ran into it in Alpha, it isn't that bloody strong >:E
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Post by WesleyGibson on Mar 4, 2005 11:38:47 GMT -5
The modification to shukutaihou is, as far as I'm aware, just plain wrong. In @g to the best of my recollection it was EN based. Granted, I could be wrong, but I remember Shuu using it fairly often in the moon battle. I'll see if I can dig up a screenshot to back it up.
*mourns the @g save file he had RIGHT BEFORE the fight in question and lost due to reformating*
Edit: Alright, according to Umbaglo Granzon has an EN based shukutaihou in Alpha Gaiden, and according to Imban, it's EN based in LoE.
Rounds: 0, EN: 2
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Post by Umbaglo on Mar 4, 2005 14:35:14 GMT -5
Neo Granzon is not the most powerful thing in SRW. Volkruss, for one, is much stronger. So are a lot of the final bosses.
Also, I was looking at the wrong weapon. Granzon in AG doesn't have Shukutaihou at all. Neo's Shukutaihu is EN based, and it's Black Hole Cluster is both EN AND round based.
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Post by Eis Attacker! Ver.W on Mar 4, 2005 20:45:59 GMT -5
Well, this new update fix should appease all members~ Prototype Shukutaihou is now made more Shukutaihou-ish and both are now EN based. Worm Smasher on Neo is now 2 EN/attack, and EN use on weapons have been reduced. Thanks to Kouji for pasting stats out for easier reference.
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Post by ^Keiichi_Morisato on Mar 4, 2005 20:55:44 GMT -5
That looks good.
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Post by Berrik on Mar 4, 2005 21:06:20 GMT -5
I still think Astranagun should be nerfed drastically, to around Rapiecage's level or so.
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Post by MISTER TIBBS on Mar 4, 2005 23:39:25 GMT -5
When I got Astranagun on the last level, I used it to destroy three Zuphiroudes by itself. I don't know what game you were playing, but Astranagun is fine as it is.
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Post by Quattro Bajina on Mar 4, 2005 23:58:00 GMT -5
It only appears in Alpha, IIRC. And yes, it's a pretty damn strong suit.
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Post by minibahamut on Mar 7, 2005 4:24:46 GMT -5
completely unimportant thought: GuAIZ Dual Beam Claw (BM)- 8 damage x 2 Seems like that would be better as Dual Beam Claw (BM)- 8 damage # 2 since both claws are coming at you at the exact same time
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Post by Umbaglo on Mar 7, 2005 7:02:16 GMT -5
The claws could also swipe one after the other. Unlike, say, a Liger, where the claws HAVE to come down at once for the attack to even make sense.
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