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Morale
Feb 26, 2005 0:31:26 GMT -5
Post by Umbaglo on Feb 26, 2005 0:31:26 GMT -5
I think that it's about time we seriously start looking at implementing Morale. This isn't really a hard ability; Morale's effects are pretty apparent when you play.
The proposal: Implementation of the Morale Bar.
Description: Morale has many affects within Super Robot Wars. Most obvious is that Morale levels determine when you can use certain abilities and weapons. Less obvious is that Morale gives a boost to damage given and a reduction to damage receive. Also, certain games give bonuses to dodge based on Morale, but I can't find a formula sheet for that.
Morale works on a scale of 50 to 150. There are many ways to increase Morale; from being hit to killing enemies. The most basic setup is 1 Morale each time you are hit, 5 Morale each time you kill an enemy, and 1 Morale each time an ally kills an enemy. Certain games also give bonus Morale for dodging or hitting an enemy. There are also spells that give Morale.
Just as there's ways to gain Morale, there's also ways to lose it. Some spells will drain your Morale, and certain abilities or events will as well. Resupply, for example, will drain the target's Morale each time it's used. Some games will also penalize Morale if an ally dies, though others will give Morale for that instead. Generally, though, it's harder to lose Morale then it is to gain it.
Back to the benefits. As stated before, Morale gives 2 main bonuses. First is activation of weapons and abilities. For example, most games require 120 Morale before a unit's barrier can be used, or Stoner Sunshine requires 130~140 Morale before it can be fired. The other benefit is that each point of Morale increases damage dealt by 1%, and reduces damage received by 1%. Again, some games also boost evasiveness by some factor, but I do not know any formula for this.
In general, I think this would be very good to implement. With this, we can properly implement certain abilities, and help to limit the use of certain weapons, as they are in the games.
Discussions?
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Morale
Feb 26, 2005 0:39:42 GMT -5
Post by Regris Kallen on Feb 26, 2005 0:39:42 GMT -5
I honestly like the idea, but I think implementing something like this would be yet another value that we'd have to take into account in battles, and really, I think the SC runs just fine as it is.
I guess I'm just a traditonalist that doesn't like too much change, but I think changes are being implemented too rapidly at this point. I'm not saying that these changes are bad, I'm just saying it'd be best to slow things down a little and take them a step at a time.
To summarize, I thing it's a great idea, but I think we should settle down with everything we have already.
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Morale
Feb 26, 2005 1:09:49 GMT -5
Post by MaullarMaullar on Feb 26, 2005 1:09:49 GMT -5
I don't think it's a huge step up from Ki-Ai. Of course, if everyone has a Ki-Ai-type ability, we'd need to give the SRs something else to make them unique.
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Morale
Feb 26, 2005 1:21:10 GMT -5
Post by Tavish on Feb 26, 2005 1:21:10 GMT -5
I don't think it's wise to implement this into the SimChamber as it is now. I think if we were to do this, we might as well just go back and rethink the entire system of the SimChamber and make a SimChamber v2 or something, to be honest.
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Morale
Feb 26, 2005 2:06:36 GMT -5
Post by Rooster on Feb 26, 2005 2:06:36 GMT -5
I like the idea of morale being implemented, but it'd basically be a major mod to every class. I personally like the idea, but would have to see how it would affect things in the SimChamber. If it IS implemented, Tavish is right about just sitting down and making all the big changes at once.
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Morale
Feb 26, 2005 2:14:33 GMT -5
Post by Mechalomaniac on Feb 26, 2005 2:14:33 GMT -5
I like the idea as well, but I'm in agreeance with everyone else that it's just too much.
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Morale
Feb 26, 2005 8:07:47 GMT -5
Post by RurouninMao on Feb 26, 2005 8:07:47 GMT -5
well this thread is suppose to be a discussion on how to implement it, dont really need to IMPLEMENT it ASAP even if we have somethign going. At least we have somethign discussed and ready so that when we do need it we have one semi ready. Right?
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Morale
Feb 26, 2005 21:51:26 GMT -5
Post by Avitar Diggs on Feb 26, 2005 21:51:26 GMT -5
I think adding this Morale thing would TOTALLY change the way the game is played. We'd have to rethink several classes, mechs, and abilities. If you're gonna do that, you might as well just make a whole new game. Now, if you're willing to like, shut down the SC for a month or two and redo everything, go for it. But I feel if the game's pretty enjoyable as it is now, we don't need it.
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Morale
Feb 27, 2005 6:12:04 GMT -5
Post by Tavish on Feb 27, 2005 6:12:04 GMT -5
well this thread is suppose to be a discussion on how to implement it, dont really need to IMPLEMENT it ASAP even if we have somethign going. At least we have somethign discussed and ready so that when we do need it we have one semi ready. Right? That doesn't work, since the game elements do not exist in a vacuum. You do not have the concept of leveled DESTROY without things that interact differently with it, HP and damage are not seperate from each other, items and mecha are closely related. Certain things can be modified with less repercussion, others are easier to change, still more are neither of the two. Introducing Morale would require us to rethink the gameplay entirely, in my opinion, and at that rate, it'd probably be better to just start from square one and build a new system, that while looking vaguely like the SimChamber's current edition, especially in terms of stats, would probably be much, much different in play, and those rules are what the game runs off of.
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Morale
Mar 1, 2005 7:39:01 GMT -5
Post by Berrik on Mar 1, 2005 7:39:01 GMT -5
Implementing Morale is a great idea, but unfortunately it would require the rebalancing of almost every unit and ability in the SC.
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Morale
Mar 1, 2005 9:46:28 GMT -5
Post by Julius Firefocht on Mar 1, 2005 9:46:28 GMT -5
Case in point are the Dynamics's Ki-Ai counters and the Enhanced Human's Tension Bar.
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Morale
Mar 5, 2005 12:00:48 GMT -5
Post by Blaine Kodos on Mar 5, 2005 12:00:48 GMT -5
I don't think we need morale, to be honest. We have enough factors to consider when we pick mechs, items, weapons to use, and the like. I'm not saying that it wouldn't end up in a neat workable form, but we just don't need it.
I was never good at math. Hated it. Now, my main class is one of the three in the board with the most math equations to work with per match. Take my match in the Solaris tournament with Radius vs Danny and Arkady. In one turn, I had 10 different damage calculations, each only slightly different from the last, to work out. Wheras before I could just figure "23 damage for a while, then 8 for the rest".
And that's just my stuff. There are people who don't include their work in their posts, just final values, that I have to work out to make sure they're right. Not that I'd ever accuse anyone of cheating in their calculations, I just have to make sure. It's a bit of an OCD thing.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't want to add even more math, regardless of how small, to my already hefty plate. I think we're fine as we are, citing a few needed changes that are already in progress.
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Morale
Mar 6, 2005 3:30:31 GMT -5
Post by Tavish on Mar 6, 2005 3:30:31 GMT -5
You know, although it doesn't work as simply for defenses with fixed damage modifications, all you have to do with your calculator is, when taking a hit, multiply it by your Kiai bonus, then divide the same, and then multiply it by your new Kiai bonus, unless you hit Potential. Which can be applied the same way.
Fixed damage modifications just require a keener eye.
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Morale
Mar 6, 2005 10:13:52 GMT -5
Post by CowboyJohnny on Mar 6, 2005 10:13:52 GMT -5
Ki-ai and potential are tolerable if you've already decided what you're going to do about a series of attacks; where it gets to be a real pain is figuring out the results of a set of actions. Because often there's no transparent way to convert the damage, you have to re-compute each individual hit for every possible way you might do something.
Relative strengths of the abilities aside for a moment, this would be somewhat easier to work with if ki-ai counters were added at the end of the defense phase, or something like that.
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