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Post by CowboyJohnny on Nov 9, 2004 9:44:35 GMT -5
Since everyone seems pretty happy about the general direction bunshin is going, it's time to ask about Martian Successors. The changes make the old MS thread largely irrelevant, so I thought I'd try to start clean. While I'd like to post a complete MS proposal eventually, it's just not there yet, and maybe this will help.
Let me start by trying to get Nadesico canon down, as well as I understand it.
---- How to Survive Boson Jumps -Be born on Mars (the route for members of this class). -Protect yourself with a Distortion Field of roughly battleship strength. -Have a simple genetic modification done - although in the TV series this is apparently done at birth (for Jovian males), in Prince of Darkness it sounded like they had developed an easy way to do it later.
How to Initiate Boson Jumps -Mechanically. This is actually pretty easy, either to transport something else, or to transport one's own unit. The only problem is targeting - if you have no Martians in control and your destination is not a Chulip, you can't jump with any precision for more than some kilometers. -Have a Martian or Martians do it. This requires less equipment, if any, and is apparently safe for people with them in some situations where those people wouldn't otherwise be able to survive the boson jump. Details are a little thin, though. I believe the term "A-Class Jumper" refers to precision in particular - that's a person who can reliably end up exactly where he wants when he jumps.
Aestivalis Pilot Abilities -They're RR pilots; except for Akito freezing up while he wusses out periodically, they get hit rarely if ever. -Based on the TV series they'd be good countercutters. In Prince of Darkness it was kind of like, "Now that we're in mechs that can't countercut, we'll just have to countershoot!" (How was CC and stuff done for them in Impact?) ----
New bunshin may not be possible to extend to all units, and doesn't extend well to teleporting IMO (you'd think teleporting should be an attack-phase-negation effect). Personally I'd like to make it a different mechanic.
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Post by RurouninMao on Nov 10, 2004 7:48:09 GMT -5
hmm, well we can use your idea and make it that MS can do it in any units... or hmmmmmm how about an ability that let you and Any Number of ally to jump to avoid a certain number of attacks...of course this will have to cost MS a big sum to balance it but it just an idea i got on top of my head
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Post by Arad Baranga on Nov 11, 2004 8:22:26 GMT -5
Here's an idea:
- A-Class Jumper: Immune to any negative DC modifiers of battle terrain.
- Boson Jump: Instantly dodge the first incoming attack this turn, and all attacks originating from the same attack phase. This effect overrides the Flash seishin. Number of uses is based on rank. Regain one use every X turns, based on rank. Private: 1 use. 6 turns to recharge. Corporal: 1 use. 5 turns to recharge. Sergeant: 2 uses. 5 turns to recharge. Lieutenant: 2 uses. 4 turns to recharge. Ensign: 3 uses. 3 turns to recharge.
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Post by Tavish on Nov 11, 2004 14:37:40 GMT -5
Sounds cool. Essentially a "dodge this attack phase." Useful, until you hit a Personal Trooper.
Although comparing it to Evasive Manuevers, or Heavy Metal Power, or Stealth, I'm not sure this sort of Boson Jump should have such limited resources.
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Post by MaullarMaullar on Nov 11, 2004 15:16:53 GMT -5
You get 3 uses, and then get to use it once every three turns thereafter. That's a lot better than no uses and once every four turns.
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Post by Tavish on Nov 11, 2004 15:26:47 GMT -5
Doh~!
Ignore my stupidity.
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Nov 11, 2004 18:11:40 GMT -5
I like Kait's idea for Boson Jump, but what do you mean by "overrides Flash" - Flash goes after it, or Flash waits until the next turn? I'd probably just make it dodge one attack phase, not usable more than once per turn.
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Post by Seth Valentine on Nov 11, 2004 18:20:11 GMT -5
And no one stopped to think how the Martian Successors themselves would feel. ~_~
I still liked the old ideas in the Boson Jumping thread about EN based Boson Jumping. Not necessarily 1 EN per bunshin depending on health, but I personally feel that we should use up EN to boson jump and do it as many times as we can afford. Or at least place a limit on how many times you can do it a turn if you're a certain rank, like Private can only jump something like twice a defence phase, Corporal Thrice, and so on until Liutennant, who gets to jump ten times.
I dunno about the above, I just posted that so I'd be contributing SOMETHING to the thread. But I do feel that boson jumping should stay EN based, for some reason.
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Post by MaullarMaullar on Nov 11, 2004 18:29:02 GMT -5
So you can be invincible in an Aesti near a Nadesico?
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Post by CowboyJohnny on Nov 11, 2004 19:05:44 GMT -5
This was mentioned in chat, but just to say it again: Kai and I are probably half the active Martian Successors in the SC.
I think it'd be fair to give the units with mechanical boson jump (Jovian SRs, Alstromelia, Yatenkou and its Muzuras, Eucharis) an EN-based unit ability usable by Martian Successors only. I don't think that needs to be resolved immediately, or have much effect on this discussion. For a general pilot ability, Kait's sounds pretty good.
Something like (a very rough sketch):
Martian Successor
DC is 14, min DC 5 Countercut 2/5
Boson Jump: Dodge all attacks from one attack phase. May not be used more than once per turn. Ensign: 3 uses. 3 turns to recharge. (Considering the difference between the wording of this and most charging abilities, would it get one charge every three turns or every four?)
Nanomachine Implant Lieutenant: DC is 7, CC is 1/4, maybe something else. (Some CC improvement with IFS makes a LOT of sense. In any case I'd like it to be something other than a minor tweak to Dual Tesla. There should be some effect for motherships too, but I don't know what yet.)
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Post by Seth Valentine on Nov 12, 2004 9:53:54 GMT -5
I'd say I'm one of the few active MS's here too.
This is good, actually. It stops an Aestivalis from being invincible near a Nadesico like Maullar said, and it also implements my idea from the previous boson jumping thread that one boson jump would avoid all attacks in the series, because all the attacks would be aimed at one location (sure, this point would vary with some attacks, granted, but with multihit lasers that fire off at the same time etc, it would/should be one boson jump to dodge them all.)
The only problem I think would be the fact that at Ensign level it would be three uses throughout the whole battle, therefore a Liutennant would gain 4 uses in a battle. Fair enough, but shouldn't it be 10 uses at liutennant, and for every lower rank, -2, like the Psychodriver? Or does the Psychodriver's Psychic Overdrive negate only one attack rather than all attacks?
Although, wouldn't it be best if we left the IFS ability as it is, and increase the DC to 15? That way, with the IFS, they would be able to get their minimum dodge cost. And naturally, Martian Successors would be skilled in their own units, so having a much better dodge cost than usual, and a better countercut cost, in a unit with IFS would make sense. (Although there is the small matter of the IFS item...)
Also, although this is just my personal opinion, should we make it so that Martian Successors at Liutennant rank can countershoot?
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Post by Yanbetari on Nov 12, 2004 12:34:27 GMT -5
I think the original intention was for it to have 3 charges to start with, and every 4th turn or so regen a charge. The one problem I can see with it is that in a 1v1 match, unless your opponent is a PT, or has a PX Sys, it's like a super Stealth, and thus in IFS units, MS become a Ninja Senshi Deluxe, much like how ABs were at one point Newtype Deluxe. Perhaps, in semi-ripoff of Bunshin, maybe make it charge by attack phases or something, so it's more balanced in 1v1, but still useful in team fights?
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Post by MaullarMaullar on Nov 12, 2004 13:34:45 GMT -5
I don't think IFS should take you down to 5. I think originally the lowest it took your DC was to 7, which is on par with NTs.
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Post by Mechalomaniac on Nov 12, 2004 16:22:22 GMT -5
The way I read it as you would not begin the 3 turn recharge time until all three original uses were taken up, leaving them Boson-less (and thus vunrable) for three turns.
Overall I think it's a nice idea, and definately makes them a bit more unique.
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Post by Tavish on Nov 12, 2004 18:39:51 GMT -5
Hmm. Mecha's interpretation seems somewhat viable...
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